Our Summer BAL 79: Hindemith Symphony "Mathis der Maler"

[edashtav]

I was given - as a 14th birthday present (pretentious brat that I was) - the stereo Karajan/BPO Bartók Music for Strings etc which had, as its B side, the Hindemith. I was greatly taken with the music at the time - and probably played it more often than the Bartók. However, I've no idea quite how the HvK stands up to more modern competition. I seem to have the Composer, Kletzki, Steinberg in Boston, Abbado and Blomstedt - the last of these being a recent rediscovery. Great Decca recording.

Snap - am I your doppelgänger?

[Parry1912]

I must listen to Bernstein again. I remember the SM being excellent but I can’t really remember what the MdM was like.

Listened to Karajan again and really enjoyed it.

[Pulcinella]

I must listen to Bernstein again. I remember the SM being excellent but I can’t really remember what the MdM was like.

Listened to Karajan again and really enjoyed it.

I must try to find a different incarnation of the Karajan to stream, in case there was something dodgy about the one I found: the sound was very thick and congested. I must admit that I was surprised, so I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

[Pulcinella]

I must try to find a different incarnation of the Karajan to stream, in case there was something dodgy about the one I found: the sound was very thick and congested. I must admit that I was surprised, so I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

I found what was possibly a different incarnation, so streamed that.
I was perhaps overly harsh with the 'dreadful' comment, but it went up only a notch (from a low base) in my liking.
I don't have a score, but have looked at some of the musical quotations in this wiki article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony:_Mathis_der_Maler

I know that the first movement starts 'Ruhig bewegt', but Karajan's angels are decidedly ponderous, and their concert sounds no fun at all: I want some (Poulencian?) cheekiness and high spirits in this movement. The percussion in general is often overwhelming, and rather coarse sounding, and the final 'Alleluia' is not as resoundingly joyous as I'd like.

Still: chacun and gouts, etc!

Followed by the Salonen, whose angels are equally slow off the mark.

[Barbirollians]

I found what was possibly a different incarnation, so streamed that.
I was perhaps overly harsh with the 'dreadful' comment, but it went up only a notch (from a low base) in my liking.
I don't have a score, but have looked at some of the musical quotations in this wiki article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony:_Mathis_der_Maler

I know that the first movement starts 'Ruhig bewegt', but Karajan's angels are decidedly ponderous, and their concert sounds no fun at all: I want some (Poulencian?) cheekiness and high spirits in this movement. The percussion in general is often overwhelming, and rather coarse sounding, and the final 'Alleluia' is not as resoundingly joyous as I'd like.

Still: chacun and gouts, etc!

Followed by the Salonen, whose angels are equally slow off the mark.

Pulcinella I think it is remastered in one of the Warner Karajan boxes with most of the recordings beings with the Philharmonia in the 1950s. Sound seemed fine there as I recall .

[Pulcinella]

Pulcinella I think it is remastered in one of the Warner Karajan boxes with most of the recordings beings with the Philharmonia in the 1950s. Sound seemed fine there as I recall .

With this cover?

https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/bartok-music-strings-percussion-celesta-hindemith-symphony-mathis-der-maler

That was supposedly the first one I streamed.

This morning's seemed to be a French version (sorry; can't provide a link) in the Musique Classique series (BnF Collection, whatever that is!).

Looking forward to some more comments on what I think is a splendid piece of music.
Maybe poorer interpretations support the claim that Hindemith wrote 'utility' music, but the better ones reveal much more depth to the music than that.

All imho, of course!


And at least this thread has elicited some response, so I'm glad I launched it!

[Barbirollians]

No - not that cover but in Warner's big box. of 1951-1960 recordings . It looks like probably the same remastering as these were done in 2014. I will dig it out listen to it on CD and see if the sound has the same issues as you had.

I see Gramophone were not much impressed in 1962 - much preferring the composer's recent recording.

[Pulcinella]

This is the work chosen for BaL in the new (May 2023) BBC MM.

Best recording:
Frankfurt Radio Symphony/Paavo Järvi

Three other great recordings:
Israel Phil/Bernstein
Berlin Phil/Abbado
LAPO/Salonen

And one to avoid:
LSO/Horenstein

[Bryn]

This is the work chosen for BaL in the new (May 2023) BBC MM.

Best recording:
Frankfurt Radio Symphony/Paavo Järvi

Three other great recordings:
Israel Phil/Bernstein
Berlin Phil/Abbado
LAPO/Salonen

And one to avoid:
LSO/Horenstein

I must search out the Horenstein, then. It's hard ot find on QOBUZ but Youtube has this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uATlfSBzekM

It's done the rounds of labels, over the years.

[Master Jacques]

By happy chance, my wife and I did a blind sampling of four performances about six months ago:
they were

The Composer/BPO (from the marvellous DG box)
Abbado/BPO
Bernstein/Israel PO
Ormandy/Philadelphia (RCA box)

Abbado technically solid, well-balanced but dull; the composer too thinly recorded despite the performance's massive, wiry energy; Ormandy sumptuous but bland; Bernstein alert, powerful, moving and even witty by turns - Bernstein won in a canter!

I'd add that Kubelik (in his complete performance of the opera, which of course includes the "symphony" as orchestral preludes/interludes) has a radiant spiritual dimension which is in the Bernstein class.

[Pulcinella]

I must search out the Horenstein, then. It's hard ot find on QOBUZ but Youtube has this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uATlfSBzekM

It's done the rounds of labels, over the years.

Is that because you trust BBC MM as little as you trust David Hurwitz?

[Bryn]

Is that because you trust BBC MM as little as you trust David Hurwitz?

Oh, that would be difficult. I just find "best avoided" recordings are sometimes well worth hearing and when Horenstein is involved this seems quite likely to b the case.

[Pulcinella]

Oh, that would be difficult. I just find "best avoided" recordings are sometimes well worth hearing and when Horenstein is involved this seems quite likely to b the case.

Well I wasn't too taken with the 'winner' just now, so I might join you in hunting out the Horenstein.
I can't find the Bernstein though.

PS: Just found the Bernstein in a DG collection. Opening not magical enough, sadly.
Didn't take to the Horenstein either.

[teamsaint]

Well I wasn't too taken with the 'winner' just now, so I might join you in hunting out the Horenstein.
I can't find the Bernstein though.

Try youtube ?

https://youtu.be/rB3AZK4jXsg

( Love that CD cover)


edit…also found it for streaming on Apple under the Leonard Bernstein (DG) Collection Vol 1 pt 4.

[Pulcinella]

Try youtube ?

https://youtu.be/rB3AZK4jXsg

( Love that CD cover)

You posted just as I made my PS (found in a collection and streaming now.....).