Our Summer BAL 59: Rimsky-Korsakov Scheherazade

[BBMmk2]

This has to be one of the most atmospheric scores ever. I know very popular and so it should be. Especially judging by the amount of recordings out at the moment.

I have Royal PO/Takua Yuasa c/w Borodin Polovstian Dances Prince Igor - RPO, Sir Thomas Beecham.

c/w Borodin in the Steppes of Central Asia/Kirov Orchestra, Gergiev

c/w Borodin Symphony no.2. Concertgebouw Orchestra, Kiril Kondrashin.

[Richard Barrett]

I don't know exactly what an "atmospheric score" might be (one that floats through the air?) but Scheherezade is certainly IMO a beautifully conceived, structured and orchestrated work full of inspired melodic invention, which in fact I heard in the first orchestral concert I ever attended. Recently I've been listening most often to the recording by Jos van Immerseel and Anima Eterna, whose HIPP approach makes its orchestral colours even more vivid than usual. Writing this reminds me that some time I should really explore more of Rimsky's work.

[Stanfordian]

This has to be one of the most atmospheric scores ever. I know very popular and so it should be. Especially judging by the amount of recordings out at the moment.

I have Royal PO/Takua Yuasa c/w Borodin Polovstian Dances Prince Igor - RPO, Sir Thomas Beecham.


c/w Borodin in the Steppes of Central Asia/Kirov Orchestra, Gergiev

c/w Borodin Symphony no.2. Concertgebouw Orchestra, Kiril Kondrashin.

Hiya Maestro,

Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade it sure is a lovely work. My two best choices always delight me. Both full of the perfumed atmosphere of the Far East as idealized of the time:

Kirov Orchestra/Valery Gergiev - Decca
Philadelphia Orchestra/Eugene Ormandy - Sony

[pastoralguy]

For me, the solo violinist is always paramount when choosing recordings of this super work. I have three all time favourites

1) Michael Davis when he was leader of the LSO on Pickwick, an early version of LSO LIVE, under John Mauceri. (*)

2) Alan Loveday with the RPO under Rudolph Kempe. This was a CfP Lp I bought as a teenager and played it to death!

3) Edwin Paling with the SNO under Jarvi on Chandos. I heard the SNO play this work many times and Paling always delivered that solo beautifully.

I know a lot of individuals are quite snobbish about it but it's a real opportunity for the orchestral soloists to shine. Iirc, the Edinburgh Festival rejected Barbirolli's proposal to perform it with the Hálle since it was 'pap!' Silly buggers!

(*) Available for £1.63 with free p&p om eBay!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I know a lot of individuals are quite snobbish about it

If "disliking it intensely" = "being quite snobbish about it", then I'm firmly with the snobs. Too much repetition of third-rate melodic material, it put me off R-K for decades - the Snow Maiden at ON earlier in the year amply demonstrated that he was capable of writing very good Music indeed.


Out of general interest, which Music is it permissible to dislike without being labelled "snobbish". (Not that I mind being so labelled; if it gets me out of having to listen to this piece it's a price well worth paying several times over.)

[CallMePaul]

If "disliking it intensely" = "being quite snobbish about it", then I'm firmly with the snobs. Too much repetition of third-rate melodic material, it put me off R-K for decades - the Snow Maiden at ON earlier in the year amply demonstrated that he was capable of writing very good Music indeed.


Out of general interest, which Music is it permissible to dislike without being labelled "snobbish". (Not that I mind being so labelled; if it gets me out of having to listen to this piece it's a price well worth paying several times over.)

I also enjoyed the ON Snow Maiden despite a few quirks in the production and its being sung in English translation. Returning to Scheherazade, I only have the old Haitink/ LPO version on LP. I was very surprised that this was not included in BH's The Philips Years collection earlier this year, as it was very well reviewed on first appearance. The van Immerseel would certainly interest me; I have long been surprised that the HIPP approach to 19th century music seems to have passed the Russian school by. Maybe Teodor Currentzis can be persuaded to record it with MusicAeterna - that would be worth hearing, judging by his Stravinsky recordings!

[Richard Barrett]

if it gets me out of having to listen to this piece it's a price well worth paying several times over

Oh dear.

[BBMmk2]

I supposed 'atmospheric' can be too generalised a term. I always associate with scores that have a lot of drama and associate it with of a work with that has an association. For example Bax, Tintagel.

As far as the recording goes, that I have, it lists the two artists involved but on both counts, I think Scheherazade has the stamp of Beecham about it, rather than Yuasa?

[cloughie]

I always go back to three great recordings Kletzki, Monteux and Reiner.

[Richard Barrett]

and associate it with of a work with that has an association

If you say so!

I would find it an interesting work even if I didn't know the "story" (and actually I would be hard put to match movements against what they're supposed to represent). I guess my liking for it is related to that early and decisive experience, along with Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony, which was on the same programme and which is still more or less the only piece by that composer I can get on with. I'm not sure about "third-rate melodic material" though. Is it possible that it's come to seem third-rate as a result of all the imitations of it in movie scores (to name only these)? I find it amazing that so much variegation in colour is extracted from a relatively small orchestra (double woodwinds) by the standards of its time.

[vinteuil]

Out of general interest, which Music is it permissible to dislike without being labelled "snobbish"...

... dontcha think that that Dunstaple feller is fraffly vulgar? - all that full triadic harmony??

I think the rot set in with Pérotin.


.

[richardfinegold]

If you say so!

I would find it an interesting work even if I didn't know the "story" (and actually I would be hard put to match movements against what they're supposed to represent). I guess my liking for it is related to that early and decisive experience, along with Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony, which was on the same programme and which is still more or less the only piece by that composer I can get on with. I'm not sure about "third-rate melodic material" though. Is it possible that it's come to seem third-rate as a result of all the imitations of it in movie scores (to name only these)? I find it amazing that so much variegation in colour is extracted from a relatively small orchestra (double woodwinds) by the standards of its time.

It is very atmospheric, in the late Romantic Hollywood Technicolor sense. One of the definitions of atmospheric, btw, is 'creating a distinctive mood,typically of romance, mystery or nostalgia", and so BBm I think your use of the term is spot on.
It's one of my favorite pieces. It is my wife's favorite work and she will play it non stop for days unless I intervene. I imagine that would be ferneys concept of one of Dante's inner circles of the Inferno
Reiner's CSO recording is the only one that should ever be required. The only question is is what format, as it has been remastered, SACD, DVD-A, multichanneled, and probably played backwards through a food processor. I also have Ormandy, Stokie, Beachem...all the minor leagues in comparison.

[BBMmk2]

It is very atmospheric, in the late Romantic Hollywood Technicolor sense. One of the definitions of atmospheric, btw, is 'creating a distinctive mood,typically of romance, mystery or nostalgia", and so BBm I think your use of the term is spot on.
It's one of my favorite pieces. It is my wife's favorite work and she will play it non stop for days unless I intervene. I imagine that would be ferneys concept of one of Dante's inner circles of the Inferno
Reiner's CSO recording is the only one that should ever be required. The only question is is what format, as it has been remastered, SACD, DVD-A, multichanneled, and probably played backwards through a food processor. I also have Ormandy, Stokie, Beachem...all the minor leagues in comparison.

Thanks, RFG. I still think that with the Beecham recording, where Borodin's Polovstian dances re the coupling, I think it's him, all he way through?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm not sure about "third-rate melodic material" though. Is it possible that it's come to seem third-rate as a result of all the imitations of it in movie scores (to name only these)? I find it amazing that so much variegation in colour is extracted from a relatively small orchestra (double woodwinds) by the standards of its time.

Daaah - da - daaaah di da daaaaaah di da ditdat ----- plink plonk

repeat until Feb 29th then insert

pom pom Paah pom pom Pee, pom pom Paah pom pom Pee; pom pom Paah pom pom Pee, pom pom Paah pom pom Pee

Then repeat the "Daah - da -daahs" again until Easter.

Rhythmic interest? 3/10
Harmonic interest? 2/10
Structure? 2/10

The only point of vague interest is giving the lousy melody to a different instrument every time it appears - I think that there are much more interesting things one can do with an orchestra (even one with double woodwinds - or even less: witness Mozart's last four Symphonies).

I'll say no more - but I've disliked the work ever since I first heard it forty-five years ago, and have greatly enjoyed many movie scores that might have "imitated" it since (beggur! There goes my membership of the Snobbish Club - and I'd waited so long to get it). I used to quite like the Prince & Princess and the first section still appeals - but I can no longer eat a whole one. It is, for me, one of those works that initially I disliked, but over the years, it's got worse.

[Barbirollians]

Daaah - da - daaaah di da daaaaaah di da ditdat ----- plink plonk

repeat until Feb 29th then insert

pom pom Paah pom pom Pee, pom pom Paah pom pom Pee; pom pom Paah pom pom Pee, pom pom Paah pom pom Pee

Then repeat the "Daah - da -daahs" again until Easter.

Rhythmic interest? 3/10
Harmonic interest? 2/10
Structure? 2/10

The only point of vague interest is giving the lousy melody to a different instrument every time it appears - I think that there are much more interesting things one can do with an orchestra (even one with double woodwinds - or even less: witness Mozart's last four Symphonies).

I'll say no more - but I've disliked the work ever since I first heard it forty-five years ago, and have greatly enjoyed many movie scores that might have "imitated" it since (beggur! There goes my membership of the Snobbish Club - and I'd waited so long to get it). I used to quite like the Prince & Princess and the first section still appeals - but I can no longer eat a whole one. It is, for me, one of those works that initially I disliked, but over the years, it's got worse.

Poor you who conducted that first listen I wonder that put you off so spectacularly .

I love it Kletzki who must have replaced Kempe on CFP o.is to blame with Hugh Bean marvellous on solo violin . My six year old son loves it but always calls it Sinbad and it is one of the few pieces that can absorb him on a long car journey.

The melodic material is first rate in my opinion terrific tunes that one never forgets.