Our Summer BAL 12 - Bruckner's 4th Symphony

[HighlandDougie]

A very recent, truly radical reappraisal comes from Mario Venzago with the Basle SO on CPO. You'll get a few shocks - well, fewer than with Knappertsbusch -but you're unlikely to be bored!

With that recommendation copy ordered (cheap; used) from amazon.fr. Will be very interested to hear it - Venzago is a conductor too little known in the UK, although clearly appreciated by the Northern Sinfonia (an excellent Bruckner 2 also from CPO).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

At the risk of appearing a tad too controversial for HS , I remember buying an old LP recording of this very work by Zdenek Macal/Halle, which impressed me greatly ... I think it later appeared on CD but I'm not sure if it's still available.

Not that I know of, scotty, but there is at least one second-hand copy available (and not unrealistically priced, for once):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B0063S0XIM/ref=dp_olp_2

Macal made some excellent recordings for CfP, particularly of Dvorak, but I missed this one!

Ferney makes a good point about the Finale, but as always in Bruckner the coda tends to make one forget any perceived previous 'deficiencies' ?

The Coda is excellent, but for me it emphasizes what I perceive to be "deficiencies" in the rest of the movement, rather than making me forget them. It's the one Symphony where I haven't yet heard a performance that shows that the Finale holds together as well as those of the others. I hope SJ points me in the direction of the one I've been waiting for these past twenty-odd years!

[jayne lee wilson]

With that recommendation copy ordered (cheap; used) from amazon.fr. Will be very interested to hear it - Venzago is a conductor too little known in the UK, although clearly appreciated by the Northern Sinfonia (an excellent Bruckner 2 also from CPO).

Tangential to topic, but Venzago is on live on R3 next Friday with the Northern Sinfonia, excellent programme culminating in Dvorak 7. I was going to say "don't miss it", but as HS and I have been saying, these evening concerts have been getting strangely (and sadly) few reactions here recently...

FHG - I'll try to come back on this another time, but I think the 4th's finale is indeed a structure which never quite found its most achieved form, a way-station leading to the more successful finales of 6,7 (similar approach but more compressed) and 8 - which latter is perhaps the grand finale to Bruckner's strivings toward this highly original symphonic last-movement synthesis, one solution to the "finale problem."

As for the 9th's finale...I think it's different from all the others, but I'm still getting to grips....

[AjAjAjH]

[QUOTE=scottycelt;217074]At the risk of appearing a tad too controversial for HS , I remember buying an old LP recording of this very work by Zdenek Macal/Halle, which impressed me greatly ... I think it later appeared on CD but I'm not sure if it's still available.

This is the recording that I learnt Bruckner 4 from, I had it on cassette. I wish it was still available. I don't know how it ever got recorded because I heard Macal conduct it with the Halle just before this recording came out and the principal horn at the time botched up every entry and refused to stand to take a bow at the end of the performance.

Heard it 10 days ago in the Bridgewater Hall with the Halle and Marcus Stenz and the principal horn was superb. Every exposed entry on cue and no split notes - brilliant.

[Hornspieler]

My own personal favourites are ( in no particular order):
Bruno Walter/ Columbia SO - graced by the superb / sublime horn playing of Sinclair Lott, 1st horn at that time of the L.A. Phil
Hans Knappertsbusch - VPO - graced by the superb / sublime horn playing of Gottfried von Freiberg, 1st horn of the Vienna PO

Good afternoon Waldhorn.

I've just been listening to that recording of the VPO and marvelling at the superb horn opening played by Gottfried von Freiberg.

Pure liquid gold! The sheer beauty of that playing just takes ones breath away.

Thanks for reminding me of that wonderful player - one of my boyhood heroes at a time when horn playing was more about romantic phrasing than astonishing technique.

HS

[Herrmannesque]

So Stephen Johnson doesn't like Karajan's interpretations of Bruckner, fair enough. But I think it a misuse of the critic's licence to use the word "inhuman" in connection with a performance. But then our Stephen has form in this area. In a previous Bruckner BAL he described a Karajan performance as "sinister". Rather over the top don't you think? But it's obvious what he's alluding to and what informs the judgement. Yes, we all know HvK was (along with millions of others in Germany) member of the Nazi Party but it's a bit silly to read an artist's political affiliations in their interpretative style.

[verismissimo]

Missed it. I'll listen later.

And the winner was?

[Bryn]

So Stephen Johnson doesn't like Karajan's interpretations of Bruckner, fair enough. But I think it a misuse of the critic's licence to use the word "inhuman" in connection with a performance. But then our Stephen has form in this area. In a previous Bruckner BAL he described a Karajan performance as "sinister". Rather over the top don't you think? But it's obvious what he's alluding to and what informs the judgement. Yes, we all know HvK was (along with millions of others in Germany) member of the Nazi Party but it's a bit silly to read an artist's political affiliations in their interpretative style.

"sinister"? What, as in 'leftist'?

I have yet to listen to this morning's BaL, but though a Karajan set was my staple for a few years, I do weary of it now, somewhat.

Oh, who 'won'?

[PJPJ]

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/buildingalibrary.php

[Richard Tarleton]

I'd like to know if the Bruno Walter/CSO that some of us regard so highly was in SJ's original pile of, 25 I think he said.

[Petrushka]

So Stephen Johnson doesn't like Karajan's interpretations of Bruckner, fair enough. But I think it a misuse of the critic's licence to use the word "inhuman" in connection with a performance. But then our Stephen has form in this area. In a previous Bruckner BAL he described a Karajan performance as "sinister". Rather over the top don't you think? But it's obvious what he's alluding to and what informs the judgement. Yes, we all know HvK was (along with millions of others in Germany) member of the Nazi Party but it's a bit silly to read an artist's political affiliations in their interpretative style.

Presumably, Jochum's and Bohm's recordings were binned for the same reason?

I didn't listen either (impossible on a Saturday morning) but then I'm satisfied with the many Bruckner 4 recordings I have, including HvK's.

[Herrmannesque]

"sinister"? What, as in 'leftist'?

I have yet to listen to this morning's BaL, but though a Karajan set was my staple for a few years, I do weary of it now, somewhat.

Oh, who 'won'?

Maybe SJ was being a bit "gauche"

[Petrushka]

So BPO/Wand 'won'. I have that recording but it doesn't get played that often. IMO, Wand was never truly at home with either 4 or 7, good as they still are. Others take precedence for me, notably the live Concertgebouw/Jochum and the seriously underrated VPO/Haitink.

[Bryn]

I wonder whether we will get the whole symphony on Monday, or just a 'bleeding chunk'? I fear the latter is the more likely.

[scottycelt]

I was surprised at Johnson's dismissal of the Bohm as 'not wearing well'. Sounds just as good to me now as when I first heard it!

It also now seems to be in vogue with some reviewers to knock Karajan's Bruckner. I still think he is very hard to beat in these symphonies 'in the round'.

I agree with the choice of winner, though. It is not just the superb performance with the Wand but the clear, crisp quality of sound.