Our Summer BAL 12 - Bruckner's 4th Symphony

[gurnemanz]

I had not listened to the Columbia SO/Walter for too long - it is a truly great record . Terrific cumulative power and impact .

a favourite LP of mine (now CD)

[Barbirollians]

a favourite LP of mine (now CD)

So many Bruckner performances seem episodic to me and go nowhere. This is the exact opposite - an inspiring emotional journey .

[jayne lee wilson]

So many recordings.... all of the same edition, 1878/80. Ever tried the 1874 Original, anyone?
I was sad to miss Jurowski's live relay of the (seminal!) 1873 3rd last week... ! Did anyone hear it? Still there on iPlayer & the press reviews were excellent...
(Jurowski's RFH 1872 2nd, broadcast early 2014, was very fine; he seems a natural Brucknerian, he knows his editions, and so far seems to have resisted rolling his own.... for which relief, etc.).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06xykxy

...starts just before 5th index point, around 1'26....

[silvestrione]

Who were the Columbia Symphony Orchestra? Walter certainly got wonderful performances out of them: I used to have Bruckner 9 on LP, my introduction to Bruckner , in fact. Awe-inspiring.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Who were the Columbia Symphony Orchestra?

Generally speaking, an ad hoc collection of whichever professional players were available in the cities where the recordings took place. (Members of the LAPO featured prominently when the recordings were done in Los Angeles, for example).

[Barbirollians]

And I think members of the NYPO if in New York . I imagine it was a special job to be asked to be a part of an orchestra for Walter .

Wasn't it the NYPO when a conductor struggling with a Mahler symphony asked for ideas from the orchestra and one member of the brass section shouted " send for Bruno Walter "

[PJPJ]

Who were the Columbia Symphony Orchestra? Walter certainly got wonderful performances out of them: I used to have Bruckner 9 on LP, my introduction to Bruckner , in fact. Awe-inspiring.

If in California, the orchestra was mostly the Los Angeles PO but included local free-lance players some of whom undoubtedly played in the MGM ocrhestra, for example. If on the East Coast, largely the New York Philjarmonic, with additions from the New York Stadium (who weren't the NYPO in disguise) and again, free-lancers on Columbia's books.

[Petrushka]

If in California, the orchestra was mostly the Los Angeles PO but included local free-lance players some of whom undoubtedly played in the MGM ocrhestra, for example. If on the East Coast, largely the New York Philjarmonic, with additions from the New York Stadium (who weren't the NYPO in disguise) and again, free-lancers on Columbia's books.

Bruno Walter's recording of Beethoven's Choral is an oddity in that it is played by both! Apparently, Walter wanted to use the New York based Westminster Choir for the finale so the first three movements were recorded in LA with the California players while Walter then took himself to NY to record the finale with the East Coast contingent both calling themselves the Columbia Symphony Orchestra!

While hardly a deception on the Hatto scale, it's still a deception, though in all fairness I doubt if anyone would notice any difference without being aware of it (or even if they are).

[P. G. Tipps]

So many recordings.... all of the same edition, 1878/80. Ever tried the 1874 Original, anyone?
I was sad to miss Jurowski's live relay of the (seminal!) 1873 3rd last week... ! Did anyone hear it? Still there on iPlayer & the press reviews were excellent...
(Jurowski's RFH 1872 2nd, broadcast early 2014, was very fine; he seems a natural Brucknerian, he knows his editions, and so far seems to have resisted rolling his own.... for which relief, etc.).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06xykxy

...starts just before 5th index point, around 1'26....

Caliban, at least, attended and sadly I missed the live broadcast though I've played the recording back many times.

This is a stunning vindication of Bruckner's first thoughts. There is a sense of balance in the work compared to the later revisions especially the much-performed last 1889 version. So many fine passages needlessly discarded in those. Robert Simpson believed the coda of the Finale arrives far too quickly in the later versions and when you hear the 1873 first attempt, the composer seems to have got it right after all, at least to my ears. Too bad the conservative Viennese audience (and orchestra) didn't begin to comprehend the work but, to be fair, it must have seemed completely 'off the wall' in those days. In fact, to some these days, it still does, apparently!

I'll leave Simpson to sum it up better than I ever could:

'I would urge all conductors to learn the original (Third), to feel the essential majesty of its movement, its natural momentum and the purity of its character. It is as near as we shall ever get to Bruckner's true Third, and it should be repeatedly performed until the more fatal flaws of the other two versions become obvious to everyone'.

In my opinion, much the same applies to the various versions of the 4th.

PS ... just listen to those screaming flutes near the end of Jurowski's account of No 3 ... wonderful!

[Bryn]

So many recordings.... all of the same edition, 1878/80. Ever tried the 1874 Original, anyone?
I was sad to miss Jurowski's live relay of the (seminal!) 1873 3rd last week... ! Did anyone hear it? Still there on iPlayer & the press reviews were excellent...
(Jurowski's RFH 1872 2nd, broadcast early 2014, was very fine; he seems a natural Brucknerian, he knows his editions, and so far seems to have resisted rolling his own.... for which relief, etc.).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06xykxy

...starts just before 5th index point, around 1'26....

The same basic team's Linz version of the 1st, back on 30 November 2011 was also very fine. Very much looking forward to their first version of the 4th in the next couple of years or so.

[Cockney Sparrow]

The same basic team's Linz version of the 1st, back on 30 November 2011 was also very fine. Very much looking forward to their first version of the 4th in the next couple of years or so.

Anybody know if that is available - LPO label, etc.

[Bryn]

Anybody know if that is available - LPO label, etc.

It was broadcast live on Radio 3, and was available in 'HD Sound' via the iPlayer, so some here might have saved it in some form or other. Let's hope the LPO do indeed issue the series on disc, however.

[Beef Oven!]

Currently listening to MPO/Celibidache EMI

This, Bohm, Karajan & Wand are the benchmarks. Of course, Celibidache, closely folloewd by Bohm is the one to have!

[HighlandDougie]

I was at a concert on Friday evening in the (acoustically superlative) Suntory Hall when Sylvain Cambreling conducted the Yomiuri Nippon Symphony Orchestra in the Benjamin Korstvedt edition of the 1888 version of the fourth. I was so taken up with the music that I forgot to listen out for major differences but it all seemed to make musical sense to me. It was a fine performance from a conductor whom I don’t automatically associate with Bruckner but, given his credentials in big works by Messiaen et al, I shouldn’t really have been surprised.

[Beef Oven!]

I was at a concert on Friday evening in the (acoustically superlative) Suntory Hall when Sylvain Cambreling conducted the Yomiuri Nippon Symphony Orchestra in the Benjamin Korstvedt edition of the 1888 version of the fourth. I was so taken up with the music that I forgot to listen out for major differences but it all seemed to make musical sense to me. It was a fine performance from a conductor whom I don’t automatically associate with Bruckner but, given his credentials in big works by Messiaen et al, I shouldn’t really have been surprised.

I'm beginning to realise that there are conductors other than the usual suspects who do fine things with Bruckner!

Lately I've been snacking on Nelsons' Gewandhausorchester Bruckner 4 and to say the least, it's growing on me.