Our Summer BAL 48 - Bruckner Symphony No 9

[pastoralguy]

Bruckner isn't amongst my top 10 (or even top 20!) favourite composers but I do love the ninth symphony. I was lucky enough to hear Gunter Wand conduct his NDR SO in Schubert 8 and Bruckner 9 at the Edinburgh festival which was simply marvellous.

[Barbirollians]

Bruckner isn't amongst my top 10 (or even top 20!) favourite composers but I do love the ninth symphony. I was lucky enough to hear Gunter Wand conduct his NDR SO in Schubert 8 and Bruckner 9 at the Edinburgh festival which was simply marvellous.

2001 when they also brought that programme to the Proms ?

[Barbirollians]

Giulini's Chicago 9th is pretty good too !

[ostuni]

That Klee BBC mag CD was my introduction to this symphony, and has always seemed rather special. I've never understood the high reputation of the Walter: horrible acoustic with absolutely no bloom (the polar opposite of the Klee), and some disastrous flute errors 3 pages from the end.

I've just listened to the Abbado Lucerne performance for the first time, and like it A Lot. Some really beautiful woodwind playing throughout, and gorgeous stuff from the strings in the Adagio.

No one has mentioned the Dresden/Luisi version yet, I think: I remember it as being rather good.

[Nick Armstrong]

and then there was Stan the Man at the Halle during that period as well.

Mancunian Brucknerians never had it so good and certainly haven't had anything like it since.

OT but looking forward to going to this on 31 October:

7:30 PM, ROYAL FESTIVAL HALL, LONDON

Bruckner Symphony No. 5 (1878 Nowak edition)

Stanisław Skrowaczewski conductor
London Philharmonic Orchestra

Hope Stan's still waving his stick by then!

[Barbirollians]

On a slight tangent I always think it rather a shame that Karajan only recorded 4 and 7 with EMI . Those early 1970s recordings are probably my favourite Karajan records .

[P. G. Tipps]

OT but looking forward to going to this on 31 October:

7:30 PM, ROYAL FESTIVAL HALL, LONDON

Bruckner Symphony No. 5 (1878 Nowak edition)

Stanisław Skrowaczewski conductor
London Philharmonic Orchestra

Hope Stan's still waving his stick by then!

I plan to be there too, Caliban, en route to visiting relatives in Berks. I saw Stan conduct the Halle in the 5th to a sparsely-filled Free Trade Hall a couple or so decades ago. However the performance did prompt letters of appreciation to the Manchester Evening News by some of those who did attend.. The letters' pages in that widely-read regional journal does not usually contain enthusiastic (or any other sort of) opinion about classical music performance!

Let's hope Stan defies his advancing years for a wee while longer yet. A straightforward, brilliantly effective yet non-self-advertising conductor if ever there were one!

[verismissimo]

As an aside, while we are talking about the 9th. Just what is the 2nd movement Scherzo about? Stamping hobnailed demons perhaps? But then there is the playful trio theme - like a young couple running and dancing through meadows. What was Anton thinking? Perhaps he was reminiscing about happy times frustrated by the authority of the Catholic Church?

Any thoughts?

It's a problem. I listened to the first Haitink and Jochum with the Bavarians in the Scherzo. The former seems lumbering and the latter hasty and scrambled. Who convinces in this movement?

[Bryn]

That Klee BBC mag CD was my introduction to this symphony, and has always seemed rather special. I've never understood the high reputation of the Walter: horrible acoustic with absolutely no bloom (the polar opposite of the Klee), and some disastrous flute errors 3 pages from the end.

I've just listened to the Abbado Lucerne performance for the first time, and like it A Lot. Some really beautiful woodwind playing throughout, and gorgeous stuff from the strings in the Adagio.

No one has mentioned the Dresden/Luisi version yet, I think: I remember it as being rather good.

I sent that cover CD back twice, due to a drop-out in playback. After those two attempts, I gave up, reckoning the fault must be in the master. The performance was indeed very fine. However, having now got used to several attempts at a performing version of Bruckner's sketches for the finale (based on a near complete material in the most recent (final?) version compiled by Samale/Mazzuca/Phillips/Cohrs of 2011), I now hear the three movements completed by Bruckner as a 'bleeding chunk' when offered without a performing version of the finale.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's a problem. I listened to the first Haitink and Jochum with the Bavarians in the Scherzo. The former seems lumbering and the latter hasty and scrambled. Who convinces in this movement?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81cU8hXqkm8

[Roehre]

... Just what is the 2nd movement Scherzo about? Stamping hobnailed demons perhaps? But then there is the playful trio theme - like a young couple running and dancing through meadows. What was Anton thinking? Perhaps he was reminiscing about happy times frustrated by the authority of the Catholic Church?

Any thoughts?

What his was thinking is anyone's guess, but with this Scherzo (and many passages in this symphony -including the Finale- anyway) Bruckner was entering new grounds. An opening like the finale of 8 foreshadows the scherzo.

It is assumed that the Ninth depicts in one way or another Bruckner's profound doubts. Hence the cataclismic music, not only rhytmhically and in orchestration like the scherzo, but also harmonically.
And then there is the dedication "Dem lieben Gott"......

[verismissimo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81cU8hXqkm8

That's more like it, thanks ferney.

[Flay]

What his was thinking is anyone's guess....

So what does it depict in your mind?

And then there is the dedication "Dem lieben Gott"......

With hands clasped palm to palm in prayer, or just giving two fingers? Certainly the first three movements suggest the latter to me.

I have re-listened to my recording of Stephen Johnson's excellent Discovering Music from some years ago (the 45 minute version, no longer available in the DM archive ), and to the more recent 20-minute DM interval-based snippet . I find that the second movement is barely mentioned; he only briefly highlights its harmonies and rhythm.

[Roehre]

So what does it depict in your mind?

storm

With hands clasped palm to palm in prayer, or just giving two fingers? Certainly the first three movements suggest the latter to me.

I certainly don't exclude the two-finger possibility, but severe doubts pervade the whole of the symphony, and hence The dear God being its dedicatee might very well be an honest gesture.[/QUOTE]

[P. G. Tipps]

What his was thinking is anyone's guess, but with this Scherzo (and many passages in this symphony -including the Finale- anyway) Bruckner was entering new grounds. An opening like the finale of 8 foreshadows the scherzo.

It is assumed that the Ninth depicts in one way or another Bruckner's profound doubts. Hence the cataclismic music, not only rhytmhically and in orchestration like the scherzo, but also harmonically.
And then there is the dedication "Dem lieben Gott"......

Quite ....

The idea that Bruckner had suddenly 'lost his faith' after a lifetime of outward devotion is simply not supported by the fact of the dedication. If he had finally decided to put 'two fingers' up to the one constant he had in his life he would surely have removed the dedication?

It may seem strange, even weird, to modern secular society but the composer was talking directly to his God. For Bruckner that would have been as natural as downing a tankard of pilsner. He knew this would be his last symphony so he poured his soul out in the process. I also believe he reserved his greatest and most powerful music for this fascinating if often frightening encounter. If nothing else, it certainly gives the lie to Bruckner 'always being on his knees'!

Of course, others can surmise differently if they so wish!