Our Summer BAL 45: Bartok Quartets

[Bryn]

Having been warned off by the negative reviews, I have until today never listened to any of the 1981 Juilliard recordings. This afternoon I tried number 1 via QOBUZ (320kbps mp3 stream). Oh dear! What horrendous cloying vibrato! I gave up before the end of the first movement. Fortunately I have the 1963 and 1949 sets to restore some faith in the ensemble's earlier manifestations. Still more vibrato than I would have hoped, but nothing like as oleaginous as the 1981 survey.

Might dig the Vegh set out later this evening.

Re. the Emersons, I remember greatly enjoying a survey of theirs broadcast by Radio 3 from the QEH. It prompted me to investigate their DG recordings. I found them a rather lackluster after the QEH performances.

[Acavus]

They have: see message 8.
Also mentioned in message 27.

Thanks Pulcinella.

I should have added 'in this mastering' at the end of my last sentence. I have not been able to establish which mastering the complete Sony set of the 1963 cycle is, although an Amazon reviewer says it is the same as the French Sony release of 2001 in which quartet no. 4 is split across two discs. The mastering that so impressed me was produced in 1996 by Louise de la Fuente, and engineered by Rob Rapley using 20-bit technology and super bit mapping. Can anyone with the complete set help?

[Bryn]

Thanks Pulcinella.

I should have added 'in this mastering' at the end of my last sentence. I have not been able to establish which mastering the complete Sony set of the 1963 cycle is, although an Amazon reviewer says it is the same as the French Sony release of 2001 in which quartet no. 4 is split across two discs. The mastering that so impressed me was produced in 1996 by Louise de la Fuente, and engineered by Rob Rapley using 20-bit technology and super bit mapping. Can anyone with the complete set help?

As far as I know, only 3, 4 and 6 were ever issued in that re-mastering, unless, that is, the new 2015 set about which I can find very little detail, is of those, or better, re-mastering.



Ah no! Turns out these are the 1981 recordings on new Japanese CDs.

[Pulcinella]

Thanks Pulcinella.

I should have added 'in this mastering' at the end of my last sentence. I have not been able to establish which mastering the complete Sony set of the 1963 cycle is, although an Amazon reviewer says it is the same as the French Sony release of 2001 in which quartet no. 4 is split across two discs. The mastering that so impressed me was produced in 1996 by Louise de la Fuente, and engineered by Rob Rapley using 20-bit technology and super bit mapping. Can anyone with the complete set help?

Well, I have the set (catalogue number 5062312) and perhaps some enlightenment.
The tray liner says
Recorded 1963
Unreleased on CD (perhaps that means the whole set, if one had already appeared?)
Compilation P 2001 and C 2001 (but interestingly the first CD itself says 2001 and the second 2002, and they both also say C 1997, with original release dates 1961, 1963, 1970!)
The CDs are Made in Austria

But the bit you have been waiting for is this:
Re-issue: Eric Guillemaud
Producer: Louise de la Fuente
Special thanks to Warren Wernick

Hope that helps.

[Acavus]

But the bit you have been waiting for is this:
Re-issue: Eric Guillemaud
Producer: Louise de la Fuente
Special thanks to Warren Wernick

That's really helpful Pulcinella. Many thanks.

So it is indeed the 2001 French mastering, with the same producer as my 1996 CD but different mastering engineers. It is by all accounts a distinct improvement on the Retrospective Recordings effort, and I would be tempted to give it a try were the not 4th quartet (which just happens to be my favourite) split between two discs.

[Bryn]

That's really helpful Pulcinella. Many thanks.

So it is indeed the 2001 French mastering, with the same producer as my 1996 CD but different mastering engineers. It is by all accounts a distinct improvement on the Retrospective Recordings effort, and I would be tempted to give it a try were the not 4th quartet (which just happens to be my favourite) split between two discs.

Does you computer not have CD-R burning facilities? It is a relatively simple operation to 'rip' the final track of disc one, and the first four tracks of disc 2, and then burn them to a CD-R. Sony have been, as is all too often the case, unimaginative in their compilation of both the 1963 and 1981 recordings to CD. In both cases it would have been possible to squeeze 1, 2 and 4 on to the first CD, and 3, 5 and 6 to the second.

[Acavus]

Yes Bryn, that is probably what I will do in the end! Like you, I find incredible the lack of imagination shown when certain sets have been compiled onto disc. This is especially true of many Japanese SACDs where the LP format has been slavishly copied; the Klemperer stereo Beethoven 9th symphony spread over two discs is a case in point.

[visualnickmos]

Bartok's string quartets are among some of my "most returned to" music. Takacs and Keller being my two sets, both superb. Therefore it is interesting looking at the posts on here which mention other recordings. From what I can glean (and not exclusively from comments on here) the Juilliard's last (1981) recording appears to traverse opinions from 'love it' to basically 'awful!' Is it really so bad? I understand the 1963 - or thereabouts recording is pretty much par excellence..... any further detailed views about the Juilliard's Bartok? I ask, because I have several of their recordings, all of which I find great listening.... eg Beethoven complete SQs, Brahms Quintets, etc.

[kea]

Juilliard '63 [personal favourite, if you like 'modernist']
Vegh '72 [idiosyncratic, but mind-expanding & Hungarian, captures the spirit of the music]
...
Takacs '98 [reference set. perfect.]
...
...
...
...
Ebène (1, 2 & 3) [along with Arcanto the great unfinished modernist cycle of the 2000s]
Arcanto (5 & 6)
Hagen [good, but kind of like Juilliard '63 just not as much so]
Juilliard '49
Mikrokosmos
Zehetmair (4 & 5 on two different cds)
Engegårdkvarteten (3 & 4 on two different cds) [good, hi-res sound if you're into that, but doesn't bring much new to the table]
Belcea
Hungarian [some people's first choice, I can't get into the players' personalities tho]
...
Emerson [never got into them for some reason]
...
...
Juilliard '81


Not heard:
Novák [highly regarded]
Keller [should be pretty good]
Tokyo [considered another reference but I haven't generally got into the Tokyo's personalities in Beethoven, Schubert & Brahms]
Takacs '84
Tatrai
Vegh '56
ABQ [I actually like the ABQ in general, not sure why I never listened to their set]
Fine Arts
Guarneri [I can't imagine this ensemble+piece combination working, but it exists apparently]
Vertavo
Auryn [I am curious.....]
Penderecki
Bartók [IIRC some people have praised this, I think it's out of print now though]
New Zealand [my local band—supposed to be good, but NZ critics tend to overstate the quality of NZ musicians quite heavily]
New Budapest
Lindsay
Orpheus [really want to hear this]
Ramor
Rubin
Vermeer
Chilingirian
Alexander
Endellion [did they complete the cycle? i only found entries for 1, 3, 4 & 6]

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Guarneri [I can't imagine this ensemble+piece combination working, but it exists apparently]

I bought their LP set in 1979, when I was studying the Fourth Quartet (the blurb on the back of the Newton Classics reissue says it was originally a CBS recording - my box very definitely had the RCA label).

It is terrible! It might seem impossible to make this Music sound boring, but they manage - dull tempi, smudgy ensemble, reverberant sound. For all my dislike of the Emersons, far far rather them than the Guarneris.

[Barbirollians]

I struggle with these works . I have the 1963 Juillard and I find them hectoring especially the Third . I love much of Bartok but not the SQs .

[makropulos]

I find the very first Juilliard mono set pretty impressive (I've got the Pristine Audio mastering) , and also have a very soft spot for the Fine Arts (I remember those Saga covers well). For something in modern sound I defintely go for the Emerson. Not only are they exciting but - to my ears, at least - their tuning is so much better than some of their rivals.

[richardfinegold]

I find the very first Juilliard mono set pretty impressive (I've got the Pristine Audio mastering) , and also have a very soft spot for the Fine Arts (I remember those Saga covers well). For something in modern sound I defintely go for the Emerson. Not only are they exciting but - to my ears, at least - their tuning is so much better than some of their rivals.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't think that anyone who finds the Juilliard set "hectoring" would find the Emersons offered them a way into this marvellous Music. The greater variety of instrumental colours (and what I find much more powerful Music-making) of the Tokyo Quartet might be better suited. (And available at prices that won't scare any horses):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/String-Quartets-Nos-1-6/dp/B00C3MK7PQ

[Beef Oven!]

Back in 2015 I had two sets (see post #12). I now have 18. Rather excesive and somewhat stupid. But I genuinely enjoy listening to different recordings.

Over the last week I've listened to all 6 string quartets often, and #5 very often (3/4 times per day).

This evening I've enjoyed the Juilliards 1981 digital very much indeed. I have no issue with a bit of vibrato. Very well played and I think the recording is very good (I have the Japanese masterings). I don't have the lauded 1963 set, and won't have, until it comes around at a reasonable price.

A surprisingly enjoyable set, for me, has been the New Budapest Quartet on Hyperion. Compared to the Emersons, for example, they really swing in #5 and have a good contrast between the more sharper-toned passages and the warmer ones. I do like the Emersons, though.

Even if I live to 100, I doubt I'll get my ears and head around 18 sets, but I'm getting enormous enjoyment out of dipping in and out of the various set.

Strangely, The Heath Quartet have slipped from my go-to set at the beginning of the year to mid-table. I guess that's inevitable when there's so much on offer elsewhere. I dare say they'll rise again!

One set that I've only had a week or so is The Chiara String Quartet's 'Bartok By Heart' recording. I've not listened to it enough yet to form an opinion, but what Ive heard so far (No.5) is very impressive indeed.