Our Summer BAL 41 : Beethoven Piano Concerto No 5 in E Flat Major

[rauschwerk]

Thanks for this Rauschwerk. I have these two and have tended to prefer the Kempff. As you say, S takes a 'more classical' approach where I like the added (wrong word) poetry of Kempff and Gilels.

Never noticed the left hand going down an octave though, must have another listen.

My terminology was slack here. I meant that occasionally (eg first chord of the finale) Kempff plays a left hand octave where Beethoven writes a single note, presumably thus going outside the compass of Beethoven's instrument.

Keen to acquire a really good recent version, I ordered Fellner/Montréal SO/Nagano and have now listened to it a couple of times, finding it highly recommendable. Probably it would have attracted more notice if they had gone on to complete the cycle. I noted that in this version the slow movement takes 7'23" against 9'07" from Kovacevich/Davis. I was reminded of Alfred Brendel's remark that, "Playing the Adagio un poco mosso of the Fifth Concerto as solemnly as possible has become an impressive habit." He observes that Beethoven's time signature (cut time, or C with a vertical stroke) was altered by some editors to plain C. (Music Sounded Out, p. 55). Czerny, who gave the first Vienna performance under Beethoven's eyes, was quite clear in his edition that 'the Adagio (alla breve) should not drag'.

For this, therefore, and for the modernity of the recording I prefer Fellner/Nagano over Kovacevich/Davis.

[Barbirollians]

My terminology was slack here. I meant that occasionally (eg first chord of the finale) Kempff plays a left hand octave where Beethoven writes a single note, presumably thus going outside the compass of Beethoven's instrument.

Keen to acquire a really good recent version, I ordered Fellner/Montréal SO/Nagano and have now listened to it a couple of times, finding it highly recommendable. Probably it would have attracted more notice if they had gone on to complete the cycle. I noted that in this version the slow movement takes 7'23" against 9'07" from Kovacevich/Davis. I was reminded of Alfred Brendel's remark that, "Playing the Adagio un poco mosso of the Fifth Concerto as solemnly as possible has become an impressive habit." He observes that Beethoven's time signature (cut time, or C with a vertical stroke) was altered by some editors to plain C. (Music Sounded Out, p. 55). Czerny, who gave the first Vienna performance under Beethoven's eyes, was quite clear in his edition that 'the Adagio (alla breve) should not drag'.

For this, therefore, and for the modernity of the recording I prefer Fellner/Nagano over Kovacevich/Davis.

I have not heard the Fellner but the Kovacevich/Davis does not sound a second too long to me . One of the great accounts of this concerto .

[Bryn]

I noted that in this version the slow movement takes 7'23" against 9'07" from Kovacevich/Davis. I was reminded of Alfred Brendel's remark that, "Playing the Adagio un poco mosso of the Fifth Concerto as solemnly as possible has become an impressive habit." He observes that Beethoven's time signature (cut time, or C with a vertical stroke) was altered by some editors to plain C. (Music Sounded Out, p. 55). Czerny, who gave the first Vienna performance under Beethoven's eyes, was quite clear in his edition that 'the Adagio (alla breve) should not drag'.

Back in the early '80s there was a television programme devoted to this cut time issue, with a performance of the second and third movements (IIRC, by the Hanover Band and a fortepianist whose identity escapes me) as an illustration of what were held to be Beethoven's intended tempi. I found it revelatory. I did not have a video recorder at the time, but recorded the audio to cassette (long since disappeared). The nearest to the tempo of that Adagio un poco mosso I have heard since is that recorded by Melvyn Tan with the LCP and Roger Norrington. That comes in at 5'47" (based on Cerny's metronome marking of crotchet = 60). On modern instruments, Brautigam/NSO/Parrott take 6'19".

[Barbirollians]

Just listened to the fabled Nakajima account on YT - heavens she was good but the accompaniment sounds very much second best on my computer .There is a real sense of fantasy in her playing of the solo part .

[pastoralguy]

My earliest experience was my Dad's MfP Lp of Firkusny with the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra under William Steinberg. I can still see the impressive photo of the interior of a grand piano. My first Lp was the CfP version with John Lill and the SNO under the late, great Sir Alexander Gibson. I have it on cd and I still love it.

I chose the slow movement for my father's funeral.

[Barbirollians]

The Lill is very fine - not at all flashy.

[Bryn]

Hmmm... I'm talking about a series of recording sessions in which I took part, in London ( St Giles Cripplegate church) in about 1986 or 1987.. my memory is clearly faulty, as the orchestra wasn't actually 'on paper' 'The Hanover Band' but a freelance outfit comprising quite a few members of The Hanover Band, operating under a 'stencil' name e.g. London Antiqua Orchestra or 'some such'.
During those sessions we recorded Beethoven's Piano concertos # 1 and 5 ( and also maybe # 2 although I have no memory of it) as an attempt to complete the 'cycle' that had begun the previous year in New York when the 'members of the Hanover Band' had recorded Beethoven's Piano concerto 3 while on tour in the USA.
However I do recall that, following the completion of the recording of the Emperor concerto played by Anthony Newman ( the conductor Stephen Simon was excellent by the way) I had a rehearsal that same day in the evening with Malcolm Bilson - who asked 'how did it go with the Newman-Beethoven recordings'?
I replied - 'very good' - 'he got all the right notes'
to which Malcolm replied
'Christ, that's a HORRIBLE thing to say'....!

Hmm. How about the Egmont Overture. was that recorded during the same session? It's coupled with the Fifth Concerto on CD.



Not only are all the notes right in the concerto; the tempi are also close to those Beethoven called for, as reflected in the Metronome markings supplied by Czerny and the intended alla breve in the 'slow' movement.

[Barbirollians]

Hmm. How about the Egmont Overture. was that recorded during the same session? It's coupled with the Fifth Concerto on CD.



Not only are all the notes right in the concerto; the tempi are also close to those Beethoven called for, as reflected in the Metronome markings supplied by Czerny and the intended alla breve in the 'slow' movement.

I was bit alarmed to see that Tony would not pay £5.48 plus postage for it






















(Yes I know it was probably a lot more expensive five years ago)

[jayne lee wilson]

This woken up again...? New Kids on the block now....

Wallisch/Haselbock, Hough/Lintu and Brautigam/Willens all "best of the best" from my POV....

Should really get around to Bezuidenhout/Heras-Casado...

[Barbirollians]

Since this thread I have added the rather roughly recorded but pretty thrilling Serkin and Walter from 1941 and the excellent immensely musical if not barnstorming Helmchen/Manze account on Alpha from late last year. With their new coupling of the First and Fourth Concertos this is shaping up to be an outstanding set.

[BBMmk2]

My most recent acquisition, was by Paul Lewis, BBCSO, Jiri Behlalohvek. One of the best recordings, in more recent times.

[LHC]

Claudio Arrau's recording with Colin Davis and the Staatskapelle Dresden was much lauded at the time (1986), but hardly seems to be mentioned at all now. As I recall, it might have been the first digital recording the concerto, and the first to be released on CD.

Richard Osborne's review in the Gramophone was highly complimentary:

This is an exception account of the Emperor Piano Concerto, one which strikes me as being profoundly and sensitively attuned to the work in all its aspects. As we might well expect of a performance of this concerto by Claudio Arrau, the heroic spirit as conceived by Beethoven is revealed to be both physically robust and spiritually refined. Gloriously accompanied by Sir Colin Davis and the Staatskapelle, Dresden, the performance communicates a sense of what I can only call serene exultancy.

Its still a special performance for me, although obviously not HIPP at all. Of course, when it was released CDs were still following the same timings as LPs, so it was released on its own in what would now seem remarkably short measure for a CD (no doubt Currentzis would approve).

As an aside, Arrau was due to perform the same concerto with Davis and the LSO at the Barbican a few months later, but cancelled. He was replaced by Bruno Leonardo Gelber; a very good substitute. His recordings of the concerto (on HMV and later on Denon) are also both very fine.

[Belgrove]

Anyone heard the new Hough/Lintu set with the Finish RSO yet?

I like Hough in pretty much everything I’ve heard him do, so am tempted. He is donating all royalties in support of Help Musicians, which is another incentive to buy.

[Bryn]

Anyone heard the new Hough/Lintu set with the Finish RSO yet?

I like Hough in pretty much everything I’ve heard him do, so am tempted. He is donating all royalties in support of Help Musicians, which is another incentive to buy.

Try searching here for "hough beethoven lintu" (without the quote marks). Lots of discussion of the set from jlw.

[jayne lee wilson]

Anyone heard the new Hough/Lintu set with the Finish RSO yet?

I like Hough in pretty much everything I’ve heard him do, so am tempted. He is donating all royalties in support of Help Musicians, which is another incentive to buy.

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?21728-Beethoven-listening-blog-2020

...scroll down....
Feel free to add anything LvB related to the blog...

Good old set-to here....scroll on from #2447....

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?1534-New-releases/page245