Our Summer BaL 33: Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms

[Lordgeous]

According to Craft's The Chronicle of a Friendship, that concert was on 29 June 1964. He doesn't say what the rest of the concert was. Makes sense that it was Bach, though.

Bernstein seems to have taken over duties later at the festival: both the SofP and his later (DG) recording of Les Noces and the Mass are with the English Bach Festival Chorus, with Nicholas Cleobury (who was certainly involved with Schola Cantorum) credited as being chorusmaster on the DG recording. He is the honorary patron of the society I sing with, so I shall try to remember to ask him for his recollections the next time we meet (he comes to our concerts).

Thankyou. If I recall correctly the first half was abit of a shambles. One piece they had to stop and restart a couple of times. I don't think the orchestra knew if Craft was beating in 2 or 4 and they looked quite embarrassed. Lack of rehearsal time I guess; maybe IS had it all?! A live broadcast too.

[BBMmk2]

I have arrived late with this discussion. I have only the composer's own recording. Having read some of the posts, here, has really made me think again about this work anew!

[Bryn]

I have arrived late with this discussion. I have only the composer's own recording. Having read some of the posts, here, has really made me think again about this work anew!

Sorry Bbm, I have to ask, which one? Stravinsky recorded the work at least twice. I take it you meant he much later stereo one.

[Don Petter]

Sorry Bbm, I have to ask, which one? Stravinsky recorded the work at least twice. I take it you meant he much later stereo one.

Three times, I think. There was the pre-war recording as issued on Andante 99487 1100-2, the then separate mono and stereo recordings from the 50s?

[amateur51]

Slight deviation but I had the thrill of hearing IS conduct it live in Oxford Town Hall - part of the Oxford Bach Festival - in the 1960s (Craft conducted the 1st half of the concert - Bach if I recall correctly). I think performers were the LSO and fresh student voices of the Oxford Schola Cantorum. Momentus occasion. Has anyone else attended a live performance conducted by IS?

Wonderful story m'Lord

Here's Stravinsky conducting NHK Symphony Orchestra in the Osaka International Festival 1959.
This is "The Firebird" Suite (1945 version)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzPsJ_ikpGE

[Bryn]

Three times, I think. There was the pre-war recording as issued on Andante 99487 1100-2, the then separate mono and stereo recordings from the 50s?

I have the 1931 in both the Andante and EMI manifestations. Not sure about a 1950's mono (Sony did not included any such in their "mono years" double album). There was, however, and 1946 recording, but I don't think it has made it to CD. The stereo was March 1963.

[Ah, the 1946 recording did make it to CD, in a 3 disc box from the Lys label.

Bit beyond my budget for such an item.]

[Don Petter]

I have the 1931 in both the Andante and EMI manifestations. Not sure about a 1950's mono (Sony did not included any such in their "mono years" double album). There was, however, and 1946 recording, but I don't think it has made it to CD. The stereo was March 1963.

[Ah, the 1946 recording did make it to CD, in a 3 disc box from the Lys label.

Bit beyond my budget for such an item.]

.

Thanks for that. I'm away from home and couldn't check.

I have the Andante and the 1963. I'd forgotten that ABL3056, the 'mono one', was actually a 1946 recording, presumably transferred from 78s, though issued in the '50s in the UK.

[rauschwerk]

I have now listened to the Bernstein. No score (still in the post, sadly) but knowledge of a few metronome marks and of Stravinsky's last recording which I had for many years on LP. Bernstein wouldn't be my first choice, simply because he is so consistently slow. This works in the first movement, but elsewhere it results in a loss of forward momentum and a failure of notes (especially sung ones) to cohere into lines. The final pages seem not so much calm as soporific.

A youthful sounding choir - as suggested above, possibly based on Oxford Schola Cantorum. I could have done with a more solid tone from the sopranos in particular - perhaps Bernstein asked them for a boyish sound? A few orchestral balance quirks.

Ancerl next.

[Pulcinella]

I like these two comments on the final pages, which perhaps explain why (for me, of the recordings I have) Bernstein fits the bill.

First, Eric Walter White (Stravinsky: The composer and his works).
The coda is one of the most striking passages in all Stravinsky's music. The basic ideas are simple but original, and the harmonisation so rich that at one point there are no fewer than ten independent parts. As the bulk of these are woodwind playing in the upper register, a halo of overtones hovers round the trebles' calm, unhurried, swinging melody like a nimbus. A Byzantine basilica would seem to be the ideal setting for this music, as it floats slowly upwards towards the figure of the Pancrator [sic; surely Pantocrator?] dimly discernible at the apex of the dome.

Then Michael Steinberg (Choral Masterworks).
...., but for the praise on high-sounding cymbals and cymbals of joy, the music settles into a different, deeply inward kind of ecstasy, whose musical expression here is all timeless, motionless quiet. Great censers swing, and subdued voices fill the air with their adoration.

Perhaps I have had too much exposure to incense and can withstand any soporific effect it induces?

Looking forward to reading comments on other performances.

[rauschwerk]

Two excellent points! I think there's a difference between what has been called 'the calm of praise' and ecstasy. Which do we think the composer intended? From the composer's own last recording I infer that it was the former, but I don't think that invalidates other interpretations.

[Pulcinella]

I found even more in the White book, specifically a comment about the revised (1948) version.

In the text, he writes:

The most important thing to notice, however, is the revised tempi markings for the last movement. These seem to represent second thoughts on the composer's part and affect the speed of the coda.

There is then a footnote, which quotes from Dialogues and a Diary, by Stravinsky and Craft:

At first, and until I understood that God must not be praised in fast, forte music, no matter how often the text specifies "loud", I thought of the final hymn in a too-rapid pulsation.

(He then gives a table of metronome markings at various points in the score; the relevant change seems to be that there was NO change in tempo at Figure 22 in the 1930 version, but in the 1948 revised version the marking is Molto meno mosso, crotchet = 72 rigorosamente.)

White also quotes Stravinsky, responding to some criticism after the first performance, saying: All these misunderstandings arise from the fact that people will always insist upon looking in music for something that is not there.

Oh dear!

[rauschwerk]

Very interesting information. I measure Bernstein's tempo for the final section as crotchet = 60, and Ancerl's is much the same.

[BBMmk2]

Sorry Bbm, I have to ask, which one? Stravinsky recorded the work at least twice. I take it you meant he much later stereo one.

Yes, as that one is in the Stravinsky co0mpleter edition box,isn't it?

[Bryn]

Yes, as that one is in the Stravinsky co0mpleter edition box,isn't it?

That's the one. I saved up my pocket money to buy the LP (the Symphony in C was the coupling) soon after getting (on request) the Symphony in 3 Movements (coupled with the violin concerto) as a birthday present in my early teens.

[rauschwerk]

Ancerl has a more mature sounding choir than Bernstein (a good thing in my view) and of course a wonderful orchestra. He sticks much more closely than Bernstein to the composer's prescribed tempi in the first two movements and these are hard to fault. In the third movement he is as slow as Bernstein in the outer sections but slower also in the fast music. To my mind this preserves the proportions of the movement better. The heroic passage for horns in the third movement rings out wonderfully - at this point Bernstein's horns seem to be in the next room.

If you like the slow final section taken really slowly, I recommend Ancerl over Bernstein. On some Supraphon Gold reissues they have (according to Rob Cowan, as I recall) interfered with the tonal balance. Not having the LP for comparison I can't be sure whether this has happened here, but I found that a bit of mid-range cut made the sound more to my taste.

I have heard some passages from the Maazel version but they only made it clear why I have played it so rarely. Fast tempi, very polished but with an overall impression of glibness. Not recommended.