La Tribune: Un BaL Français

[Roger Webb]

I got a pop-up asking if I wanted it to be translated. On screen it became: Beethoven's String Quartet No. 12 in the ears of the Tribune but the podcast would still be in French wouldn't it, and the url to the translated page was the same as yours.

Do you want to start a new thread for each work, as for BaL? E.g. La Tribune: Beethoven String Quartet No 12 op. 127.

Yes, as I said I think each recipient will have to translate with their own device. Mine does it automatically...but I don't know why!


As for a new thread for each work, I'm not sure, perhaps Pulcinella could advise - I'm not sure it's necessary...perhaps a general discussion with them overlapping might do, and see how it goes.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I went to a few Bals Francis in teens and twenties and have very little memory of them . I see there’s a prize if your choice of best recording is the same as the critics.

[Roger Webb]

I went to a few Bals Francis in teens and twenties and can remember little of them and have very little memory of them . I see there’s a prize if your choice of best recording is the same as the critics.

Yes, you can vote for your favourite and the prize is usually a CD. But, although you're free to listen to France Musique streams, to vote you have to register.

[Quarky]

On the issue of posting an English translation on this forum, if felt necessary, one way of doing this is to highlight the French text, and then copy it into the Google Translate App. The English version can then be copied and pasted (perhaps using "Reading Mode").

My view is that the better you know the work, the less a translation is required.

[Roger Webb]

On the issue of posting an English translation on this forum, if felt necessary, one way of doing this is to highlight the French text, and then copy it into the Google Translate App. The English version can then be copied and pasted (perhaps using "Reading Mode").

My view is that the better you know the work, the less a translation is required.

Yes I'm sure there's a way of doing it, but if it was put up as pages of text it would take up a lot of space. Also, I think most devices being used are capable of translation if the user sets it.

[AuntDaisy]

I could possibly have a go at translating the results, but sorry to say that I'm not sure I could do it on a weekly basis. I'm still getting over the Car T cell therapy I had for my lymphoma some months ago and thus am never sure when I will be at my best!

I would suggest anyone interested in the brief summary of winners and losers on the Tribune des Critiques web page simply copies and pastes the summary into a translation service - I find DeepL provides a pretty good free translation.

All the best for your recovery MickyD.

Thanks for the DeepL tip - it looks very useful & it has English (UK) as an option! Bookmarked.
It's interesting to compare the translations on part of last week's episode - no idea which is the most accurate, but DeepL's is a more comfortable read.
I love "under the beating of André Previn" from Google translate.

DeepL
Jérémie Rousseau's review
The LSO, static under André Previn's baton, forced the issue, Radu Lupu's playing was heavy-handed, and Grieg, deprived of his youth and freshness, was not at his best.
This tone is no longer appropriate today. Nor does the vision that assigns the orchestra (a struggling Philharmonia) the role of wise accompanist. Dinu Lipatti's clarity, shapely playing, sense of rebound and aristocratic artistry will not suffice: where is the essential fever?
The first thing to note is the grandiose sound recording, which gives this Grieg a Hollywood feel. The first movement's rhythmic hold is breathtaking, but the narcissism and emphatic tone of the two performers, Javier Perianes and Sakari Oramo, both superlative, annihilate the efforts: splendid, but hollow.
What if we were to discover the Concerto with new ears? With a lively, mischievous touch that makes her part sing and dance, Shani Diluka slips into the heart of an orchestra of chamber music tones to, hand in hand with the conductor, carve out a great body of sound in motion. The ethereal, confidential nocturne of the Adagio is gradually won over by exaltation, while the finale pursues its ideas with the same conviction. If there are more spectacular pianos, the care and constant coherence of this performance must be underlined.

Firefox
The account of Jérémie Rousseau
The LSO, very static under André Previn's beaten, forces the line, Radu Lupu delivers a supported game, and Grieg, deprived of his youth and freshness, does not find his count.
That tone is no longer appropriate. Just like this vision assigning the orchestra (a Philharmonia to punishment) the role of wise accompanist. The clarity, the curved play, the sense of rebound and the aristocratic art of Dinu Lipatti will not suffice: where is the necessary fever?
First of all, let us emphasize the capture of his grandiose, which infuses this Grieg with Hollywood accents. By its rhythmic outfit, the first movement ruffles, but the narcissism and the emphatic tone of the two performers, the superlative Javier Perianes and Sakari Oramo, annihilation of efforts: splendid, but hollow.
What if we discovered the Concerto with a new ear? From a lively and malicious touch that makes his part sing and dance, Shani Diluka slips into an orchestra with chamber shades for, hand in hand with the leader, chisels a large moving sound body. Ethered, confidential, the night of the Adagio is gradually won by the exaltation, while the end of his ideas goes to the end of his ideas with the same conviction. While there are more spectacular pianos, the constant care and consistency of this proposal must be stressed.

Google translate
Jérémie Rousseau's report
The LSO, very static under the beating of André Previn, pushes the line, Radu Lupu delivers a strong performance, and Grieg, deprived of his youth and his freshness, does not find his account there. This tone is no longer appropriate today. Just like this vision assigning the orchestra (a struggling Philharmonia) the role of wise accompanist. The clarity, the shapely playing, the sense of bounce and the aristocratic art of Dinu Lipatti will not be enough: where is the essential fever?
Let us first highlight the grandiose sound recording, which gives this Grieg Hollywood accents. With its rhythmic structure, the first movement ruffles feathers, but the narcissism and emphatic tone of the two performers, the superlative Javier Perianes and Sakari Oramo, annihilate the efforts: splendid, but hollow.
What if we discovered the Concerto with new ears? With a lively and mischievous touch that makes his part sing and dance, Shani Diluka slips into an orchestra with chamber music tones to, hand in hand with the conductor, carve out a large body of sound in movement. Ethereal, confidential, the nocturnal aspect of the Adagio is gradually won over by exaltation, while the finale follows through on its ideas with the same conviction. If there are more spectacular pianos, we must highlight the care and constant consistency of this proposal.

[Ein Heldenleben]

All the best for your recovery MickyD.

Thanks for the DeepL tip - it looks very useful & it has English (UK) as an option! Bookmarked.
It's interesting to compare the translations on part of last week's episode - no idea which is the most accurate, but DeepL's is a more comfortable read.
I love "under the beating of André Previn" from Google translate.

DeepL
Jérémie Rousseau's review
The LSO, static under André Previn's baton, forced the issue, Radu Lupu's playing was heavy-handed, and Grieg, deprived of his youth and freshness, was not at his best.
This tone is no longer appropriate today. Nor does the vision that assigns the orchestra (a struggling Philharmonia) the role of wise accompanist. Dinu Lipatti's clarity, shapely playing, sense of rebound and aristocratic artistry will not suffice: where is the essential fever?
The first thing to note is the grandiose sound recording, which gives this Grieg a Hollywood feel. The first movement's rhythmic hold is breathtaking, but the narcissism and emphatic tone of the two performers, Javier Perianes and Sakari Oramo, both superlative, annihilate the efforts: splendid, but hollow.
What if we were to discover the Concerto with new ears? With a lively, mischievous touch that makes her part sing and dance, Shani Diluka slips into the heart of an orchestra of chamber music tones to, hand in hand with the conductor, carve out a great body of sound in motion. The ethereal, confidential nocturne of the Adagio is gradually won over by exaltation, while the finale pursues its ideas with the same conviction. If there are more spectacular pianos, the care and constant coherence of this performance must be underlined.

Firefox
The account of Jérémie Rousseau
The LSO, very static under André Previn's beaten, forces the line, Radu Lupu delivers a supported game, and Grieg, deprived of his youth and freshness, does not find his count.
That tone is no longer appropriate. Just like this vision assigning the orchestra (a Philharmonia to punishment) the role of wise accompanist. The clarity, the curved play, the sense of rebound and the aristocratic art of Dinu Lipatti will not suffice: where is the necessary fever?
First of all, let us emphasize the capture of his grandiose, which infuses this Grieg with Hollywood accents. By its rhythmic outfit, the first movement ruffles, but the narcissism and the emphatic tone of the two performers, the superlative Javier Perianes and Sakari Oramo, annihilation of efforts: splendid, but hollow.
What if we discovered the Concerto with a new ear? From a lively and malicious touch that makes his part sing and dance, Shani Diluka slips into an orchestra with chamber shades for, hand in hand with the leader, chisels a large moving sound body. Ethered, confidential, the night of the Adagio is gradually won by the exaltation, while the end of his ideas goes to the end of his ideas with the same conviction. While there are more spectacular pianos, the constant care and consistency of this proposal must be stressed.

Google translate
Jérémie Rousseau's report
The LSO, very static under the beating of André Previn, pushes the line, Radu Lupu delivers a strong performance, and Grieg, deprived of his youth and his freshness, does not find his account there. This tone is no longer appropriate today. Just like this vision assigning the orchestra (a struggling Philharmonia) the role of wise accompanist. The clarity, the shapely playing, the sense of bounce and the aristocratic art of Dinu Lipatti will not be enough: where is the essential fever?
Let us first highlight the grandiose sound recording, which gives this Grieg Hollywood accents. With its rhythmic structure, the first movement ruffles feathers, but the narcissism and emphatic tone of the two performers, the superlative Javier Perianes and Sakari Oramo, annihilate the efforts: splendid, but hollow.
What if we discovered the Concerto with new ears? With a lively and mischievous touch that makes his part sing and dance, Shani Diluka slips into an orchestra with chamber music tones to, hand in hand with the conductor, carve out a large body of sound in movement. Ethereal, confidential, the nocturnal aspect of the Adagio is gradually won over by exaltation, while the finale follows through on its ideas with the same conviction. If there are more spectacular pianos, we must highlight the care and constant consistency of this proposal.

It shows just how much AI is far from capturing even the basics of French and English idiom . It’ll be quite some time before translators are out of a job, “where is the essential fever.” Where indeed ? “My hovercraft is full of eels” as Monty Python so magnificently put it .

[AuntDaisy]

It shows just how much AI is far from capturing even the basics of French and English idiom . It’ll be quite some time before translators are out of a job, “where is the essential fever.” Where indeed ? “My hovercraft is full of eels” as Monty Python so magnificently put it .

Agreed - Traduttore, traditore. But half a loaf...

I did try listening to the episode, but they spoke far too quickly & beautifully. At least a bad translation can be entertaining.
Looking forward to the usual instructive & entertaining discussions à la BAL.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Agreed - Traduttore, traditore. But half a loaf...

I did try listening to the episode, but they spoke far too quickly & beautifully. At least a bad translation can be entertaining.

While I can generally follow announcements on France Musique the speed of interaction on discussion programmes is beyond me. The only French speakers I can be guaranteed to understand are the Macrons , Mitterrands and De Gaulles …
These computer translations are way off I’m afraid ..

[Pulcinella]

Yes, as I said I think each recipient will have to translate with their own device. Mine does it automatically...but I don't know why!


As for a new thread for each work, I'm not sure, perhaps Pulcinella could advise - I'm not sure it's necessary...perhaps a general discussion with them overlapping might do, and see how it goes.

Apologies for this delayed message, which I'd prepared and forgotten to post, so the first few threads have been initiated!

My inclination is to go for a new thread for each week.
I'll start the first few off.

[french frank]

It shows just how much AI is far from capturing even the basics of French and English idiom .

While this is certainly true, I don't feel in this case one needs an idiomatic translation. If it's accurate enough for the meaning to come over, that's fine. Here DeepL shows it's pretty good compared with Google Translate. If you grasp the meaning you make the necessary adjustments in your head.

[Pulcinella]

I'm not sure at what point the recordings chosen to be discussed are made known.
Are we going to place our own bets on what we think they should be, or wait to see what is said in each programme and then make comments?

[Ein Heldenleben]

While this is certainly true, I don't feel in this case one needs an idiomatic translation. If it's accurate enough for the meaning to come over, that's fine. Here DeepL shows it's pretty good compared with Google Translate. If you grasp the meaning you make the necessary adjustments in your head.

Well I’m struggling with a lot of the meaning .I have to say that this critique strikes me as so much Gallic word-spinning. A lot of adjectives in search of an idea . What exactly is wrong with Lipatti’s performance of the concerto that rules it out ? BAL Critics like David Owen Norris strike me as much superior because they deal in the specific and the demonstrable.

[Roger Webb]

I'm not sure at what point the recordings chosen to be discussed are made known.

They're not made known beforehand, the three critics (and audience in the case of the live shows) listen blind as each section of a work is played - there are six recordings identified 'A' to 'F', after each extract has been played the critics comment on it and after example 'F' has been played two are voted off, and their identities are revealed. The remaining four are played again with a different section or movt. and then one more is voted off, and their identity revealed, leaving three. The final section has all three sampled with a different section or movt. with no discussion, and then all three are discussed and a final order established. After the order is arrived at, only then is the identity of the three finalists revealed.

It's a bit more entertaining than I've made it sound! It's Innocent Ear meets The apprentice!

[Barbirollians]

Sorry Barbirollians, but in view of what Pulcinella says, I will just add that I would very much welcome a sub-forum on La Tribune: it has been mentioned a few times on and off over the years, including by me. The spoken part is mostly beyond my French, but I can read the summary OK.

Its a good idea but the Ravel Left Hand Concerto thread was not really the place for a discussion about the Grieg Concerto on Jardin des Critiques.