La Tribune: Un BaL Français

[MickyD]

It's true, I think, that we have more interest in French composers than the French do in our native composers. My CD shop stocked just about all the discs of French music that it was possible to find....and I mean those out of the way ones like Cras, Ropartz, Le Flem, Damase, Jolivet et al.

I made numerous trips to France mainly the Paris area and hunted down CD shops in the capital, only to be amazed at how little 'British music' they stock - Elgar being a prime example.

I was in one of my regulars in Rue de la Roquette, Bastille, and a piece was being played that I half recognised...you know what it's like when you can't quite put your finger on it....I asked the owner what it was, and he grunted, 'you should know, it's English'. Turned out it was the Holst Fugal Concerto on Lyrita SRCS 34. This is one of the recordings you still see - in its distinctive green Lp cover - in secondhand shops occasionally, the reason being that Quad used it at the Paris HiFi show way back in the '60s to demonstrate their loudspeakers, and the French took to its proto neo-classical style. Strange, some shops that had that as their sole representation of Holst....often no 'Planets'!

It is an extraordinary situation to be sure. I find that many friends here have never heard of Walton or Vaughan Williams. Similarly, even traditional British Christmas carols are not known at the festive season - my French partner was stunned to watch the King's College Cambridge service for the first time in his life on TV via my computer. It extends to other fields too...despite the French loving comic opera, Gilbert and Sullivan is, to my knowledge, totally unknown in this country. I appreciate that the lyrics would not be understood, but the tunes remain and surely someone could have re-written a French libretto? All very strange.

[HighlandDougie]

It's true, I think, that we have more interest in French composers than the French do in our native composers. !

Yet I never cease to be surprised at the attention which 'Diapason' pays to British music, in terms of reviewing new CDs etc. And the last 'live' performance I heard of Elgar's First Symphony (I want to say pre-Covid but actually maybe post-the first wave) was in Lyon - Leonard Slatkin and the ONL which went down very well with the audience (whom I suspect were largely local). So I'm not so sure that British music is as ignored by the French as we might like to think.

[Roger Webb]

....................... I'm not so sure that British music is as ignored by the French as we might like to think.

Perhaps not, and I'm sure that you would know better than I - I believe you're lucky enough, like Micky, to live there.

It's just the impression I get after many visits - my wife studied french in Paris and didn't know anyone who knew anything about 'British' music, except a tutor who loved Purcell.

We met, in Grez-sur-Loing (Delius's home for over thirty years) an ex professor who knew about Delius and invited us to his house to show us his collection of recordings. I mentioned to him that Delius was never played in France, and that his 'Paris: The Song of a Great City' had never been played in the capitol, he shrugged and replied that he didn't know any French friends who'd heard of him. I'm sure if you played any French person familiar with, say, Fauré, Duparc or Debussy, Delius's Verlaine settings, they couldn't but be impressed.

[Roger Webb]

This Sunday's La Tribune is Mozart's 'Jupiter'.....

https://www.radiofrance.fr/francemusique/podcasts/la-tribune-des-critiques-de-disques/symphonie-n041-jupiter-de-mozart-2918530

Must retrieve the Böhm DG box and give it a spin.

[MickyD]

Ooh, what a treat, having Christophe Rousset on the panel - must listen to this one. Thanks, Roger!

[Roger Webb]

Just playing the Böhm/BPO...I've a feeling Rousset wouldn't go for this, but you never know - this is a crisp, articulate performance...I wonder, had Böhm lived long enough to see the Period movt. would he have wanted to have a go at the helm of one of them?

I've Pinnock waiting on CD, for contrast later - I think this is my favourite PIP....but there have been so many, I no longer keep up with them.

Ps. Just got to second movt...some lovely wind playing and very good Jesus-Christus recording.

[AuntDaisy]

Ps. Just got to second movt...some lovely wind playing and very good Jesus-Christus recording.

Was he the sound engineer?

[Roger Webb]

Was he the sound engineer?

No J-C was his son, that great engineer in the sky (he used an overhead stereo pair with a 'fill-in' omni - this was known as the holy trinity) was Günter Hermanns known in recording circles in Germany as Gott!

[AuntDaisy]

No J-C was his son, that great engineer in the sky (he used an overhead stereo pair with a 'fill-in' omni - this was known as the holy trinity) was Günter Hermanns known in recording circles in Germany as Gott!

Brilliant.

[MickyD]

Just playing the Böhm/BPO...I've a feeling Rousset wouldn't go for this, but you never know - this is a crisp, articulate performance...I wonder, had Böhm lived long enough to see the Period movt. would he have wanted to have a go at the helm of one of them?

I've Pinnock waiting on CD, for contrast later - I think this is my favourite PIP....but there have been so many, I no longer keep up with them.

Ps. Just got to second movt...some lovely wind playing and very good Jesus-Christus recording.

Personally I don't think Bohm would have been at all interested. If I remember rightly Karajan was vehemently opposed to the whole notion and was very rude about it. The irony of it was that at one point in the 80s, Hogwood's discs were outselling Karajan's. I recall Boulez being dead against period performances too.

[Roger Webb]

............ If I remember rightly Karajan was vehemently opposed to the whole notion and was very rude about it.

Yes Micky, I heard that Karajan had had a conversation with Simon Rattle a long time ago when K was looking for someone to take over some concerts at Salzburg, and asking which orchestra Simon was conducting at the time, he answered Orch. of the Age of Enlightenment (Rattle did some stuff at Glyndebourne with them), K thanked him but said that Salzburg had grown-up orchestras, and that he wanted someone who could conduct them!

You're probably right about Böhm too, shame. Boulez's attitude surprises me more though.

Funny your mentioning Hogwood, I've just got out (from overspill in the conservatory) Vol 6 of Hogwood's complete Moz syms on Lp and played 41....astonishingly fresh sounding.

[MickyD]

I remember going to the first concert of the OAE with Rattle conducting, all part of the South Bank summer festival around the mid-eighties. The orchestra had only just begun and it was a real coup for them to have engaged Rattle. He said he thoroughly enjoyed himself and shortly after that the Glyndebourne appearances were assured. I guess it must have been a breath of fresh air to him. Karajan and Bohm of course came from another generation entirely so I guess were highly sceptical. Yes, Boulez was really dismissive - I think it was in a Gramophone interview.

The Hogwood Mozart cycle is still a constant delight to me, even with warts and all. It has been pushed very much to the back of HIP performances in recent years, which I think is a great pity. And you are like me, full of admiration for that amazing Decca sound.

[Roger Webb]

The Hogwood Mozart cycle is still a constant delight to me, even with warts and all. It has been pushed very much to the back of HIP performances in recent years, which I think is a great pity. And you are like me, full of admiration for that amazing Decca sound.

I have the original seven l'Oiseau Lyre boxes of LPs and, apart from the performances - real eye openers in their day, as you suggest - and of course to sound which really hasn't been much bettered since, it's the documentation, with its astute essays on historical performance practice...not to mention the, hitherto unknown (to me anyway), fact that you can work out Mozart's age from the Köchel number!

I'm on to my set of the late syms by Karajan....not as bad as they sound (if I could borrow from Wagner!)

[MickyD]

Yes, I have the original LP sets too and also the first CD release, which was a very luxurious box and contains, I believe, exactly the same notes as the LP's did. I prefer not to think about the extortionate sum I paid back then!

Wow, listening to Karajan after Hogwood's version must be something of a shock to the system! Like listening to two different pieces, almost.

[Mandryka]

I find the Jupiter really hard, mostly in the first movement. I remember a Klemperer on Testament which seemed to get the hang of it well though.