BaL 8.03.14 - Bernstein: West Side Story

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I agree. But I think it depends on your bringin' upke.......

[Pulcinella]

There is the story that Bernstein wanted Remedios, but either could not remember the name or DG wanted a big star. Google west side story remedios.

It's perhaps a shame that this BaL is not covering the Symphonic Dances; more choices there!

[doversoul1]

I am intrigued by this BaL. When there is the original performance (in this case two: the stage and the film versions), how do you compare ‘by-products’ (if the original performance had not been so successful, would there have been any other recordings, though jazz versions may be a different matter?) with the original and what are the criteria for recommendation? Are we looking for an alternative or an addition to the original? I wasn’t going to listen to it but I may change my mind.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am intrigued by this BaL. When there is the original performance (in this case two: the stage and the film versions), how do you compare ‘by-products’ (if the original performance had not been so successful, would there have been any other recordings, though jazz versions may be a different matter?) with the original and what are the criteria for recommendation? Are we looking for an alternative or an addition to the original? I wasn’t going to listen to it but I may change my mind.

I presume the rationale is that because the original staging (or, at least, the recording of it) did not include all the Music that Bernstein wrote for the work, and because the composer made a recording of it in digital sound, there is room for discussion of the merits of the (small number of) alternative recordings.

[Bryn]

And I've been waiting for someone to complain about the omission of Natalie Wood on the film soundtrack recording. But obviously I under-estimated the knowledge of forumites.

I have long been an admirer of Marni Nixon's singing. Fortunately I was able to 'upgrade' from my old, severely dished, LP of her recordings, with John McCabe, to their CD manifestation while it was briefly in the EMI catalogue:



Strongly recommended, if you come across a copy for sensible money.

[Aha! Still available, but on amazon.co.uk you need to search for "American Classics: Charles Ives", as searching for "Charles Ives Marni Nixon" is, to say the least, unhelpful.]

[waldo]

I read somewhere that Bernstein didn't orchestrate WSS. That (I believe) was done by Sid Ramin and Irvine Kostal - professional stage and screen orchestrators. Does anyone know anything about this?

[Bryn]

I read somewhere that Bernstein didn't orchestrate WSS. That (I believe) was done by Sid Ramin and Irvine Kostal - professional stage and screen orchestrators. Does anyone know anything about this?

Only that it's true.

Oh, and that the original working title was "East Side Story".

[doversoul1]

I presume the rationale is that because the original staging (or, at least, the recording of it) did not include all the Music that Bernstein wrote for the work, and because the composer made a recording of it in digital sound, there is room for discussion of the merits of the (small number of) alternative recordings.

Many thanks for the information and your thoughts. Whilst West Side Story is, to me, a musical film (that film) and cannot really think in any other way, I am now interested enough to listen to the BaL.

[Rolmill]

I have long been an admirer of Marni Nixon's singing. Fortunately I was able to 'upgrade' from my old, severely dished, LP of her recordings, with John McCabe, to their CD manifestation while it was briefly in the EMI catalogue:



Strongly recommended, if you come across a copy for sensible money.

Yes, I picked this up second hand a few years ago on spec (i.e. didn't know the music at all) and was impressed - hadn't made the connection between Marni Nixon and WSS until this thread though!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Only that it's true.

Yes - Sondheim regularly points this out when people "accuse" him of employing orchestrators for his Theatre works. They all did this, I believe - and the orchestrations had to be flexible enough to work in different sized theatres. (On the documentary about Bernstein's recording, he mentions that one of the Violinists was one of "his" Viola players from his NYPO days, who begged to be allowed to take part. He had to play fiddle, because the original theatre didn't have a pit large enough to accommodate a Viola section.)

Oh, and that the original working title was "East Side Story".

Yes - the collaborators had their first thoughts about ten years before they actually wrote the finished show, and it was originally to be a story about Jews and Catholics. Ideas never really began to blossom until Lennie encountered Latino Music: and those rhythms and harmonies gave them all the impetus to get on with it.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes - Sondheim regularly points this out when people "accuse" him of employing orchestrators for his Theatre works. They all did this, I believe - and the orchestrations had to be flexible enough to work in different sized theatres.

That's all absolutely correct. For film music, hardly any composers do their own orchestration, usually because of the very tight time restrictions. Even Walton got Malcolm Arnold to help him.

And they do encourage flexible orchestrations.

[waldo]

What about Porgy and Bess? Did Gershwin orchestrate that? I don't know all that much about it, but I have read competing accounts about this. I could be wrong, but I think it came up in Nicholas Kenyon's astoundingly sycophantic, adulatory biography of Simon Rattle. Rattle was adamant that Gershwin did all the orchestration, but others weren't so sure.......

[BBMmk2]

I am pretty sure that Ferde Groffe did some orchestrations?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am pretty sure that Ferde Groffe did some orchestrations?

Grofe arranged Rhapsody in Blue (IIRC for both the Jazzband version and symphony orchestra) - but I believe that Rattle is correct: by the time of P&B, Gershwin was orchestrating as he wrote.

[waldo]

Grofe arranged Rhapsody in Blue (IIRC for both the Jazzband version and symphony orchestra) - but I believe that Rattle is correct: by the time of P&B, Gershwin was orchestrating as he wrote.

I am pretty sure that Ferde Groffe did some orchestrations?

Thanks. I had no idea he didn't orchestrate Rhapsody in Blue........very interesting.