BaL 1.03.14 - Beethoven Symphony no. 7 in A

[silvestrione]

philharmonia/Ashkenazy
VPO/Kleiber
Philharmonia/Karajan
Philharmonia/Klemperer 1955
OAE/Bruggen

I was thinking the other day that, is there any other Beethoven symphony where the two leading recordings are so obvious and so universally admired, and will never be bettered (though could possibly be equalled, though I doubt it).

But only one of them is listed there!

[Nick Armstrong]

But only one of them is listed there!

Tease!

[kea]

I'm not really convinced the VPO/Kleiber recording is thaaaaat great to be honest >____>

[silvestrione]

I'm not really convinced the VPO/Kleiber recording is thaaaaat great to be honest >____>

I knew somebody would say that! It's unique, isn't it, in that he can drive the whole orchestra (well, first, the orchestra is as one instrument...that's not quite right, but you see what I mean) into a frenzy, that nevertheless is completely controlled (Hamlet to the players, on passion, comes to mind)? There's the intensity and shaping of the whole, and then the world goes up in flames.

In the Toscanini 1936, the ending is triumphant, the vision of the whole more balanced. He manages tenderness and restraint, even hesitancy, amidst the dancing rhythms and the wild energy.

[Barbirollians]

I was thinking the other day that, is there any other Beethoven symphony where the two leading recordings are so obvious and so universally admired, and will never be bettered (though could possibly be equalled, though I doubt it).

But only one of them is listed there!

The RPO/Colin Davis came a close 6th .

[kea]

I knew somebody would say that! It's unique, isn't it, in that he can drive the whole orchestra (well, first, the orchestra is as one instrument...that's not quite right, but you see what I mean) into a frenzy, that nevertheless is completely controlled (Hamlet to the players, on passion, comes to mind)? There's the intensity and shaping of the whole, and then the world goes up in flames.

In the Toscanini 1936, the ending is triumphant, the vision of the whole more balanced. He manages tenderness and restraint, even hesitancy, amidst the dancing rhythms and the wild energy.

I think the degree of control and single-mindedness in Kleiber is what turns me off actually. I prefer Toscanini in part because of the moments where he seems to be losing control..... as well as just the less well-mannered nature of it: Beethoven 7 needs to encompass brutality, despair, insanity, rage, tenderness, sexual frustration, as well as the "apotheosis of the dance" and there are times when the Wiener Philharmoniker just seems too polite to take the music all the way there and the triumphant ending feels almost too inevitable. Assuming that by 1936 you mean the NYPD one anyway.

I mean I still like Kleiber a lot though, it's probably a top five recording and you've got to hear it at least once in your life. I just wouldn't say "unsurpassable" lol

[silvestrione]

Beethoven 7 needs to encompass brutality, despair, insanity, rage, tenderness, sexual frustration, as well as the "apotheosis of the dance"

Yes, I remember that Wilfrid Mellers says somewhere that Weber's remark, after hearing the 7th, that 'Beethoven is now ripe for the madhouse', has its point!