BaL 1.03.14 - Beethoven Symphony no. 7 in A

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Hi Cali! I have his Brahms 4, but I am surprised JD didn't like Klieber!!

He couldn't have been too anti-Kleiber, having him on his shortlist.

[Andrew Preview]

I thought his final choice was a good one. But his sneers and assumptions were nauseating.

I wasn't at all keen on his final choice. Those trumpets!

Like you, I struggled with his tone. And I was surprised that he found so few recordings that he really seemed to like. Even Krivine, who made his final three, seemed in his view to fall a long way short in terms of conception and the technical qualities of the recording.

It would have been nice if he could have gotten his facts right, too. Rattle's recording was with the Vienna Phil, not the Berliners. And someone else mentioned an error with Immerseel's name...

[Tony Halstead]

I wasn't at all keen on his final choice. Those trumpets!

Like you, I struggled with his tone. And I was surprised that he found so few recordings that he really seemed to like. Even Krivine, who made his final three, seemed in his view to fall a long way short in terms of conception and the technical qualities of the recording.

It would have been nice if he could have gotten his facts right, too. Rattle's recording was with the Vienna Phil, not the Berliners. And someone else mentioned an error with Immerseel's name...

Errr... um.... what do you mean by 'Those trumpets: yikes'?
The trumpeters were playing - at the request of Sir Charles Mackerras - NATURAL therefore valveless trumpets, at least twice as long as the shrill, harsh 'modern' valved trumpet, with a smaller 'bore' ( tubing) therefore not as loud and of course able to 'blend' into the orchestral texture where necessary.
To my ears 'those trumpets' were superb!

[richardfinegold]

Or, say, the Hammerklavier sonata. Odd to hear something described as "the apotheosis of the dance" by Wagner characterised as "mechanistic". Something rhythmic isn't necessarily mechanistic, surely?

Have you ever heard a mechanical drumming machine? Try any reasonably popular 1980s pop song. It can be rhythmic and mechanistic at the same time.
Every movement of The Seventh does have an element of rhythmic implacability about it, and my favorite versions of tend to have that basic pulse established for most of each movement and then relase the rigidity at key points.

[Barbirollians]

I rather enjoyed it . It did rather seem that Kleiber made it to the final 2 despite himself . I was glad to hear those excerpts from the Krivine and very clear it is well worth avoiding and the Zinman was the very epitome of blandness.

His analysis of the Klemperer , that wonderful 1950 Furtwangler( what a performance that is ) and the Toscanini were interesting and the Mackerras came across as a sound final choice .

The criticism of the 1962 Karajan was unfair I thought - typically as Karajan bashing so often does ignoring the whole performance for a short extract to caricature.

More disappointing , whilst recognising the enormous limitations on a BAL in such a work was his failure to grapple with some recognised classics in this work that are available - the Konwitschny, the RPO/Davis and most recently that LSO Live Haitink which rightly received rave reviews .

[Andrew Preview]

Errr... um.... what do you mean by 'Those trumpets: yikes'?
The trumpeters were playing - at the request of Sir Charles Mackerras - NATURAL therefore valveless trumpets, at least twice as long as the shrill, harsh 'modern' valved trumpet, with a smaller 'bore' ( tubing) therefore not as loud and of course able to 'blend' into the orchestral texture where necessary.
To my ears 'those trumpets' were superb!

I'm aware that Mackerras favoured natural trumpets, and I have a fair number of recordings of various works that feature them. In this particular performance, I found them unpleasantly piercing. There was also the matter of a fluffed note in the penultimate extract - fine in a live performance, but, for me, irritating on repeated listening. Just my view, though.

[BBMmk2]

I'm aware that Mackerras favoured natural trumpets, and I have a fair number of recordings of various works that feature them. In this particular performance, I found them unpleasantly piercing. There was also the matter of a fluffed note in the penultimate extract - fine in a live performance, but, for me, irritating on repeated listening. Just my view, though.

I wouldn't deem it fit to buy the cycle just for that fluff alone!!

[aeolium]

Every movement of The Seventh does have an element of rhythmic implacability about it, and my favorite versions of tend to have that basic pulse established for most of each movement and then relase the rigidity at key points.

Then all that I can say is that never in several decades of listening to this work have I ever thought of its rhythms as being mechanical - and especially not when listening to the Furtwängler VPO interpretation.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Whatever one may think about Furtwangler, he was never mechanical.

[Black Swan]

I love this symphony, it is my favorite Beethoven Symphony. I didn't listen to the BAL because I was traveling. However, I am very happy with my Carlos Kleiber recording and don't see a a need to buy another. I may try to listen to the BAL on iPlayer.

[verismissimo]

Whatever one may think about Furtwangler, he was never mechanical.

Not clear, Alpie... opinion or fact?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Opinion, but I'm not presenting it as a fact with a patronising sneer on BaL.

[Bryn]

If anyone has a Blu-ray player in their set-up, the improvement in sound to the Kleiber in this format is little short of remarkable.

However, if you have, and are able to play, the high resolution layers of the DVD-A issue, don't rush to get the Blu-ray version. Both the DVD-A and Blu-ray discs use lossless 96kHz sampling and 24bit quantisation (2 channel stereo and 5.1 surround).

[silvestrione]

It would have been nice if he could have gotten his facts right, too. Rattle's recording was with the Vienna Phil, not the Berliners.

Erm...there are two Rattle versions, a later one with the BPO! I have not heard it. The VPO, like so many good performances with a virtuoso orchestra, has a tremendously exciting last movement.

[Petrushka]

Erm...there are two Rattle versions, a later one with the BPO!

Wouldn't be this would it?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stravinsky-Movements-Beethoven-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B002C8BQNS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1393784236&sr=8-3&keywords=beethoven+rattle