BaL 1.03.14 - Beethoven Symphony no. 7 in A

[Don Petter]

Listen to the programme at this very moment - what an obnoxious, pig-headed, narrow-minded, priggish, self-opinionated…

I'm not feeling that anti, but did remark early on that perhaps he'd got Meades to write his script.

[amateur51]

Re Kleiber 7th's, there's more so try this one for size:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19L5lqpmM2w

As it is a video and recorded live in 1986, with the Bavarian State Opera Orchestra, it is an interesting companion piece to the Concertgebouw performance that Karafan directed us to. The other movements are there, plus LVB 4 and two Strauss encores, if you get carried away.

Not issued on any label, just a television broadcast, so it won't be in contention re BAL.

Interestingly, despite his 'ownership' of the piece in many ways, it was Kleiber's conducting of the LSO (deputising for Karl Bohm) in the 7th on 9th June 1981 which drew the critics' ire, and led to his abandoning the concert stage in London for ever (though he returned to the ROH).

What a marvellous find, Prommer - many thanks

As I watched the tumultuous and extended audience reaction I was minded of the things that people kept aying about Kleiber in the two recently released films (available on youtube) about his shyness and reluctance to become a machine musician on the one hand and about his dedication and relentless drive once the conditions were right on the other hand. Seeing him stooping to accept the many bunches of flowers I was touched by the idea that such an artist must both delight in such a reception of the work that he & the orchestra have just recreated but also he might fear the night when this doesn't happen, when the magic fails. How to go on? And that of course is what happened in London on that evening replacing Boehm when the critics were savage, and he never returned, I realised. Was the audience receptive in London, I wonder?

I'm still marvelling at the range of gestures that he comes up with, so apparently spontaneous and quite unlike any other stick-waver and the joy on his face at the moments of musical release. I wish he'd been around a few decades later when neuroscientists could have mapped what was going on in his brain during performance, such is the apparent separation of his left- & right- hand movements (I can just about beat time with both ).

And in a piece that the orchestera has played scores of times, watch at around 3:45 when all the woodwinds lean forwards at the same time into the phrase, individual & collective engagement, almost as in a trance or as if they were on strings.

Thank you Maestro

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm not feeling that anti, but did remark early on that perhaps he'd got Meades to write his script.

I thought his final choice was a good one. But his sneers and assumptions were nauseating.

I recall Andrew McGregor saying there were 55 recordings. I made it 178 or thereabouts.

[BBMmk2]

I am not entirely sure, if I enjoyed hearing this BaL this morning. I found that john Deathridge's presentation a little on the measured, even ponderous side. So tiresome in places. But, a great unexpected result, in the Scotttish CO/Mackerras cycle! I have the incomplete PCs of LvB, from Mackerras and Pizarro, so this should make a compelling partner to them?

[Steerpike]

I thought Deathridge was interesting and insightful, as usual. But I couldn't go along with his final choice - any more than I could when he reviewed the 6th.

Ah well, takes all sorts...

[HighlandDougie]

Ah well, one man's Norris is another man's Deathridge. I enjoyed this BaL, although I agree with Don that it might have been written by Jonathan Meades. Didn't tell me a lot about the music I didn't already know (learning about a piece is one of the pleasures of listening) but, in such a well-known work, maybe it's difficult not to stray into opinion rather than fact. I did, though, very much agree with his point about many recordings being bland, which is not an accusation one can level at Mackerras (I was at the concert and I remember leaving the Usher Hall dancing on air). And, irrespective of the fact that the orchestra may be small, very glad to hear van Immerseel being given air-time. My personal BaL choice in this work.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

When a reviewer present his own opinions as facts, it's time to become sceptical.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

yes a BAL i enjoyed [i like Meades!] - especially the dry detachment that nonetheless argued for enthusiasm .... Immerseel was a revelation [i will stick with my Zinman/Kleber/Gardiner(live)/Davis Statskapelle/Manchester Camerata and divers others ]

it had not occurred to me until Deathridge mentioned his impact, that bloody Wagner was such a baleful influence on Beethoven performance

i also appreciated the weight the reviewer accorded this symphony ..... my ears have improved since 0930!

[BBMmk2]

Listen to the programme at this very moment - what an obnoxious, pig-headed, narrow-minded, priggish, self-opinionated…

I was thinking the same!! :)

[Bryn]

Hmm, it was all very well, and quite interesting, to hear how many orchestral parts Beethoven made available on one occasion, but that was by no means the norm. The venues his works tended to first be heard in were just too small for such big bands. However, this was not the case re. the 7th, which took place in University Hall, Vienna. Anyone here know how big the orchestra was in that occasion? Lots of big names were involved, for sure.

[verismissimo]

Given a massive field, I thought he sounded both knowledgeable and forthright. Not such a bad combination, even if he did tread on some boarders corns.

And his final choice - Mackerras and the SCO sounded excellent to my ears.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

When a reviewer present his own opinions as facts, it's time to become sceptical.

Did he do this? Any more than any other reviewer, that is? Apart from the obligatory "isn't Karajan crap" comments (which are compulsory amongst Oedipally-inclined critics of a certain age on Seedy Review these days) I thought that this was a well-presented and remarkably balanced overview. Klemperer and Furtwangler were given due praise as was (almost, it seemed, to Deathridge's own surprise) was the Barenboim/East/West Divan - and two of my favourites (Krivine - to whom I would have given the Gold - and Kleiber) came out with medals. Given the impossible task, I thought he coped well. Expensive for me, though: the 1936 Toscanini is a must, as will be the Mackerras and the van Immerseel. Oh Tempora; oh monies!

[gradus]

Well at least Toscanini and Furtwangler got a look in at the beginning.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well at least Toscanini and Furtwangler got a look in at the beginning.

And I think both were treated fairly - Furtwangler was (rightly) given quite some time.

[Bryn]

For those besotted with Carlos Kleiber's studio recording, this:



would, until recently have been the highest definition audio presentation available, and very good it is, but it's now been supplanted by a Blu-ray Audio release. I'll be sticking with the DVD-A.

Re. Krivine, an alternative performance to that edited together for CD, can be seen and heard here:

Note the size of the orchestra employed.