BaL 22.02.14 - Haydn: Symphony no. 44

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  • Hornspieler
    Late Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 1847

    A great story, Tony, but for reasons of economy, I am only quoting from the part of it which has a bearing on one of my own experiences .....
    Originally posted by Tony View Post
    What this seems to indicate is that - at least in my case - 'absolute' or 'perfect' pitch is probably an enhanced memory rather than a genetic inborn 'faculty'......

    ..... 12 years later I 'lost' my absolute pitch in a car accident where I hit my head on the windscreen and after a few weeks suffering from concussion found that my pitch-sense had ( temporarily) risen by a semitone but finally settled back to normal after about 5 weeks.
    Fortunately I now have a sort of 'floating' absolute pitch that I can rely on after about an hour of playing/ rehearsing at the 'new' pitch.

    Playing the natural/ valveless horn in concerts or recordings with many and various orchestras or ensembles, I have had to adjust to the following over many years: A 415 ( for german or english baroque music); A 430 as a sort of generalised 'classical' pitch for Haydn, Mozart, early Beethoven; A 438 for late Beethoven; A 421 for 'early Haydn' ( Pinnock where the stated reason for this was the oboe players were not able to find surviving instruments that would play at A 430) : A 392 for e.g. Rameau.
    The most 'miserable' and uncomfortable time I have ever had, pitch-wise, was playing at A 421 in the English Concert/ Pinnock Haydn recording project where the pitch was so very close to 'baroque' A 415 that it just felt like we were 'playing sharp' at baroque pitch!
    One of the finest musicians that I ever encountered was Havelock Nelson, who was the Assistant Head of Music for BBC Norther Ireland.

    Like yourself, he had an ability to play an accompaniment for any performer without previous knowledge of the piece and, of course, he had asbsolute pitch. Here is an example from a previous posting of mine regarding auditions; but that is not my main story:

    The BBC were holding auditions in Belfast for a second trombone. At that time (and maybe
    still today), being a public corporation, there were certain rules that had to be observed. The
    first rule was that there must be an `outside assessor', (that is to say, somebody not
    employed by the corporation) on the audition panel; which is how I came to be there. The
    second rule, which I am sure has now been abandoned in the interests of both economy and
    common sense, was that anyone who applied had to be heard.

    The first candidate appeared, clutching a very battered trombone. He was wearing grey flannel
    trousers with frayed turn-ups, a white open necked shirt, and white(?) plimsoles. The redness
    of his countenance, emphasised by a shock of white hair, suggested that he had `taken a few
    jars' to steady his nerves.

    The Chairman smiled thinly. “Good afternoon Mr. Mc****. What are you going to play for us?”

    To be fair, there isn't a lot of music written for trombone and piano and in fact the solo
    repertoire for trombone, apart from novelty items like `Switchback' is very sparse.

    “I'm going to play `On Wings of Song’, sir."

    “Ah yes. Mendelssohn, of course. And have you a piano part for the accompanist?”

    “No, sir. I play this from memory.”

    The accompanist, Dr Havelock Nelson, assured the panel that he could play without need of a score and turned to the candidate. “What key would you like it in?”

    “B flat, sir.”
    Well he would, wouldn't he? I thought to myself. After all, he is playing on a B flat trombone.

    Actually, it didn't sound all that bad. His mates at the `Dog and Duck' would probably have
    roared their approval. Our soloist stood, triumphant, and waited.

    An icy smile this time. “Thank you, Mr. Mc****. And what else would you like to play for us?"
    “I didn't bring anything else, sir.”

    He didn't even bring that, I thought. All he brought was a trombone.

    “So you've nothing else to offer us?”

    The candidate could sense that the job was slipping away from him. He tried a desperate last effort.

    “I can play you the second verse, if you like ....”

    * * *
    I was asked by Havelock if I would be prepared to play in a performance of the Brahms Horn Trio with a youg lady violinist member of the Ulster Orchestra and with Havelock playing piano. Rehearsals in a BBC studio went fine, but when we arrived at the concert venue, we found that the piano was a tone sharp! No problem for me - I could simply have read the music as written for Horn in F, instead of E flat, but there is no way that our young soloist could risk tuning her strings up a whole tone without risking considerable damage to her instrument.

    So Havelock opted to transpose that extremely difficult piano part down a tone. What an achievement in itself! But it was made more difficult for him that he was consciously transposing but what he heard coming out was what was written of the copy.

    Now that is what I call a masterpiece of performance and of concentration. I have always been glad of the fact that I was never handicapped by having absolute pitch.

    A good sense of "relative" pitch yes - but "absolute"? no thank you!

    Hs
    Last edited by Hornspieler; 25-02-14, 12:40. Reason: lotts of tiepose:laugh:

    Comment

    • DoctorT

      Originally posted by Hornspieler View Post
      One of the finest musicians that I ever encountered was Havelock Ellis, who was the Assistant Head of Music for BBC Norther Ireland.
      Great story too HS, but are you sure it wasn't Havelock Nelson?

      Comment

      • rauschwerk
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 1482

        My absolute pitch has 'gone off' somewhat with the years - I believe the same happened to Britten. About 30 years ago, when it was still pretty acute, I was booked to play a music hall show in a village hall with singers and music I knew well. We didn't rehearse in the hall and only on the day of the show was it discovered that the piano was a minor third flat. Another instrument, stored in the Gents', was if anything flatter.

        There was nothing for it - I had to transpose up. What made this much worse was that I was already transposing from the copy for some of the singers, which meant that in some numbers I was reading one key, hearing another and playing yet another! By the end I was reduced to playing about one note in ten. I came off with a splitting headache and for some time was able only to wander round the Green Room muttering 'Dear oh dear!'

        Comment

        • amateur51

          Originally posted by DoctorT View Post
          Great story too HS, but are you sure it wasn't Havelock Nelson?
          Had it been Havelock Ellis, HS would not have referred to transposition but to inversion

          Comment

          • Hornspieler
            Late Member
            • Sep 2012
            • 1847

            Originally posted by DoctorT View Post
            Great story too HS, but are you sure it wasn't Havelock Nelson?
            Thanks DoctorT. I was about to correct my mistake (senior moment) when I saw your post.

            Yes. Havelock Nelson it was. I have no idea who the other gentleman was!

            Hs

            Comment

            • Sir Velo
              Full Member
              • Oct 2012
              • 3268

              Henry Havelock Ellis, known as Havelock Ellis (2 February 1859 – 8 July 1939), was a British physician, writer, and social reformer who studied human sexuality. He was co-author of the first medical textbook in English on homosexuality in 1897, and also published works on a variety of sexual practices and inclinations, including transgender psychology.

              Care to comment HS?

              Comment

              • Hornspieler
                Late Member
                • Sep 2012
                • 1847

                Originally posted by Sir Velo View Post
                Henry Havelock Ellis, known as Havelock Ellis (2 February 1859 – 8 July 1939), was a British physician, writer, and social reformer who studied human sexuality. He was co-author of the first medical textbook in English on homosexuality in 1897, and also published works on a variety of sexual practices and inclinations, including transgender psychology.

                Care to comment HS?
                Well, nothing to say really. Thank you for enlightening me.

                Apparently, some people know a lot more about the chap than I do.

                Shall we get back to the subject of Haydn's Symphony Nº 44?

                Hs

                Comment

                • MickyD
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 4832

                  Yes, let's....and repeating myself once more, can anyone find me a sample extract of Immerseel doing the first movement of 44?

                  Comment

                  • HighlandDougie
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 3108

                    I had a good look through the usual suspects (Qobuz, i-Tunes, Amazon, Presto) but, alas, could find no samples online. Sorry, Micky. I did find a relatively cheap copy via amazon.fr and, as I have been collecting AE/van Immerseel releases, took the plunge anyway.

                    Comment

                    • Barbirollians
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 11759

                      Havelock Nelson sounds an extraordinarily talented musician - I wonder whether the BBC would want people like that in a senior role nowadays ? Perhaps if they were good at tweeting and preparing brainteasers ???

                      Comment

                      • MickyD
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 4832

                        Originally posted by HighlandDougie View Post
                        I had a good look through the usual suspects (Qobuz, i-Tunes, Amazon, Presto) but, alas, could find no samples online. Sorry, Micky. I did find a relatively cheap copy via amazon.fr and, as I have been collecting AE/van Immerseel releases, took the plunge anyway.
                        That was kind of you, Dougie...as you got hold of a copy, would you say that the first movement of Immerseel's is exciting enough? I agree with you, I have most of his discs, they don't usually disappoint.

                        Comment

                        • HighlandDougie
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 3108

                          Dispatched but not yet received. Will report back.

                          Comment

                          • MickyD
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 4832

                            OK, thanks a lot Dougie, I look forward to your verdict!

                            Comment

                            • HighlandDougie
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 3108

                              Anima Eterna/J v I now received - and enjoyed very much. Orchestra is: 6 1st violins; 5 2nd violins; 3 violas; 2 double basses; 2 oboes; 1 bassoon; 2 horns. Timings are: 6'37"; 4'39"; 6'13"; 3'25". The comparatively small size of the orchestra vis à vis, say, Brüggen's OAE may make it sound less smooth (I think Nick Kenyon's observation about the performance - here I paraphrase - was that it sounded a bit rougher than others) but that helps the character of the music shine through. It's lively without sounding at all rushed and so I wouldn't hesitate. Couplings pretty good, too.

                              I'm now looking forward to receiving their new CD of the Mussorgsky/Ravel Pictures and Ravel's Mother Goose. Amazon tell me that I should receive it on Monday.

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