BaL 22.02.14 - Haydn: Symphony no. 44

[MickyD]

In the three quarters-completed Haydn symphony cycle by the AAM and Hogwood, James Webster gives convincing proof for the lack of harpsichord continuo at Esterhaza. As for HCRL, he appeared in a South Bank Show with Hogwood at the launch of the cycle, appearing at the Esterhaza Palace and going along with that new train of thought. It would be nice to see this documentary again, it was accompanied by performances of three early Haydn symphonies performed by the AAM in the palace.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thanks to waldo and Micky for the updates. The comment from HCRL that I quoted dates from 1954 (sixty years ago!) so I should have been more circumspect. The Philharmonia scores omit editorial prefaces - possibly because of such anachronistic possibilities?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The presence of a Cembalo (Harpsichord), though not specifically required in Haydn's score, was a matter of course in the 18th Century, and a performance of this work without without this instrument is unthinkable. Particularly in the First Movement (eg bars 39ff) the Harpsichord fulfils a necessary harmonic, as well as colouristic, function.

I question that.
The harmony is complete without it. As for providing a colouristic function, I suggest is merely interferes with the well-balanved orchestration. It's function in the 18th century was to keep the orchestra together.

[waldo]

I question that.
The harmony is complete without it. As for providing a colouristic function, I suggest is merely interferes with the well-balanved orchestration. It's function in the 18th century was to keep the orchestra together.

Yes, I think that is one of the beliefs that has (largely) given way in the light of modern scholarship. In any case, how could anyone know that the harpsichord fulfills a necessary harmonic function in this or that bar when Haydn didn't write a single note to indicate just what harmony the continuo was supposed to provide?

Speaking personally, I am delighted that we no longer have to feel guilty for listening to these symphonies without a continuo. Nothing worse than being beaten over the head by the HIP brigade.

[Petrushka]

Loughran seems to be as sadly lacking in his programming of Lachenmann as he was of Vaughan Williams.

Veering dangerously off-topic (well I didn't start it it!) I did hear Loughran conduct the Halle in RVW 9 in 1976. Steering back on topic, I heard him conduct Haydn too in the same year but it was the Trumpet Concerto.

[MickyD]

Yes, I think that is one of the beliefs that has (largely) given way in the light of modern scholarship. In any case, how could anyone know that the harpsichord fulfills a necessary harmonic function in this or that bar when Haydn didn't write a single note to indicate just what harmony the continuo was supposed to provide?

Speaking personally, I am delighted that we no longer have to feel guilty for listening to these symphonies without a continuo. Nothing worse than being beaten over the head by the HIP brigade.

The paradox is that it was some of the HIP brigade who argued against a harpsichord continuo!

No.44 is one of my favourites too - but I have yet to hear a period instrument performance which gives it that sort of frenzied nervousness in the opening movement that is required. I would personally love to hear Concerto Koln doing it...their disc of Vanhal Sturm und Drang symphonies is electrifying.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Is anything missing? Anything at all?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Is anything missing? Anything at all?

To be fair to HCRL, you quote from the Trauersymphonie; he was referring to La Passione (well, he was at the time).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The paradox is that it was some of the HIP brigade who argued against a harpsichord continuo!

Yes, I was puzzled by waldo's final comment - if there is "nothing worse than being beaten over the head" by a mythical "brigade", then the ones most suffering from such a battering are those listeners who want to hear a Harpsichord in these works?

[waldo]

Yes, I was puzzled by waldo's final comment - if there is "nothing worse than being beaten over the head" by a mythical "brigade", then the ones most suffering from such a battering are those listeners who want to hear a Harpsichord in these works?

That's just it. They aren't hitting me over the head any longer. They are hitting someone else, instead.

[verismissimo]

... Nothing worse than being beaten over the head by the HIP brigade.

I rather think it's the HIP brigade, as you put it, who have abandoned continuo in these and Mozart's symphonies. Who can say what will be the gospel around an issue like this in the future...

[verismissimo]

Speaking of Robbins Landon, this is from his notes for the LP release of the Philharmonia Hungarica/Dorati recording of this symphony (all those notes abandoned in the CD release, of course):

The name is said to come from Haydn, who expressed a desire to have the slow movement played at his funeral... It is one of the greatest of Haydn's Sturm und Drang works, a new kind of symphony which is neither a chamber work nor a grand one with trumpets and timpani. Here Haydn finally achieved the form he had sought so long, for the emotional world of the church sonata... was successfully transferred to the "normal" symphonic structure. Not quite normal, though, because Haydn shifts the weight, after the enormously powerful opening movement, to the slow movement but allows a breathing space by inserting the minuet in between. In overall balance, this symphony is a miracle of judgement...

The great period of the Viennese classical style has begun, and it is no exaggeration to say that music was never the same again.

[Tony Halstead]

The 'authentic Haydn pioneer' in the UK, the violinist-director Derek Solomons, was very much guided by HCRL in his series of recordings which started on 'Saga' ( LPs) in about 1980 and continued on CBS until about 1987,
During that time, 'Robbie' decreed that a harpsichord would be redundant after Symphony 26.
Incidentally, the Solomons recording of Symphony 44 is still available on CD so, by rights should be included not only in 'Alpie's list but in Kenyon's.

[jayne lee wilson]

As HD suggests, I do find Bruggen's OAE recording to be a near-perfect balance of rhythmic precision, energy and darker insights. The very sound itself has a haunting poignancy. (I don't personally warm to readings of this piece that are very driven). Just a shame it's now in an even bigger box than my cherished 5-disc 1999 set! (You may still find this on Amazon somewhere...)

Hermann Scherchen's 1953 reading with the VSOO is truly great - a very dark, searching, visionary realisation of the piece which transfixes the listener's gaze. Surprisingly moderate in tempi in the outer movements (weightily serious in the finale, no hint of fleeing from the demons here), the adagio is EXTREMELY slow at 9'04 (Bruggen is a scarcely brisk 6'54). Scherchen seems intent on teasing out every thread of sound. The music almost sinks into stasis and the emotion seems to retreat - until that rich fulfilment of winds and horns blossoming out in the second strain. Really remarkable.
Fascinating to see that both Bruggen and Scherchen take 5'39 for the Minuet, like artists carefully examining every intensity of shadow.

I was surprised to see that Scherchen places the adagio 2nd - is there any precedent for this, does anyone else do it? (Then the Minuet quietly creeps back into life...)

Has anyone else noticed the close similarity of No.44's Minuet to that in No.52 (where it's placed 3rd)? There's the same tense, apprehensive atmosphere in both, the rhythm is identical, and both the trios are mood-lifting variations of the Minuet.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

To be fair to HCRL, you quote from the Trauersymphonie; he was referring to La Passione (well, he was at the time).

I've checked the score and your argument has greater merit here. It's a few bars of 2-part counterpoint, but it's quite sufficient as it is.

When Handel composed "The People that Walked in Darkness" in 2-part counterpoint throughout, it is considered HIPP to perform in in that way. Yet when Mozart filled in the implied harmonies with beautiful passing modulations and woodwind colouring, that is regarded as the worst kind of heresy by HIPPsters. Personally I dislike the harpsichord in the orchestra because it is indiscriminate - inaudible in loud passages and unmusically loud in quiet sections. It's a pity the harpsichord piano e forte remains only in my own sketchbooks.