BaL 12.03.11 Recordings from Sir Thomas Beecham

[french frank]

By request I've merged the Platform 3 thread on Sir T with this one. Carry on ...

[Gordon]

EMI were notoriously slow off the starting blocks when it came to new technology (they were still producing 78's as late as 1958!).....

Yes, EMI was a bit slow with new technology after the war except for their first BTR1 tape machines, based on German Magnetophons, from 1948 which Decca also used. As for issuing 78s in the late 50s, so was everyone else!! I used to have some Decca 78s from that period.

The earliest stereo EMI recording I know of is a Prokofiev disc from Nikolai Malko and the Philharmonia set down in 1955 and still, I believe, available on CD.

This is officialy the first EMI stereo release but experimental ones were made before that but not intended for issue. Decca's first issuable stereo recording was Winifred Attwell playing the Grieg concerto in December 1954 but it was never issued in stereo until recently by Pristine.

I would say that stereo did not become the norm until 1958.

September 1958 was when the recording world agreed on the stereo standard for cutting stereo vinyl discs - it used Blumlein of EMI's patented method of ca1933.

Knowing that it was coming all the majors were recording regularly in stereo from about 1955, some a few months in late 1954. These early recordings used very simple methods and temperamental equipment which meant that sometimes complete releasable works in stereo were not possible. Toscanini's last concert with the NBCSO was made in stereo on 4th April 1954. Some stereo was made in Germany by the DRR on tape in 1944 with Karajan among others.

Beecham made a Boheme for RCA at the Manhattan Center NY in March and April 1956 using 2 track mono - voices on one track of a two track machine, orchestra on the other - - NOT stereo although some electronic stereo was released later [HMV SLS 896 LPs]. Probably didn't have a wide enough mixer for true stereo. However, EMI made a stereo Beethoven Mass in C with Beecham in Abbey Road between May 1956 and April 1958. EMI and Decca were recording regularly in stereo from about mid 1955 but Kenneth Wilkinson for example didn't start making stereo tapes until mid 1958, he did the monos and others the stereo.

According to the Philharmonia discography Klemperer did not make a stereo version of Hindemith Nobilissima Visione in October 1954 at Kingsway Hall [Hindemith did himself in November 1956 also at KH] but it is possible that an early stereo machine was present at the sessions which could have supplied a master for CD release.

[Cellini]

Dave thank you so much for putting that thread from the old MBs on here. It makes me realise how I miss them,
I've forgotten how to access them but will have a go I think.

You know Sal, I looked at those old threads on the BBC boards and I felt very sad. Thosaitch75 was lost to us shortly after that, and he makes reference to the future twice I think, quite lightly and in passing. I think people like Thosaitch75, Gordon and HS (who are still with us) were very interesting and knowledgeable, and all really big characters. I should of course include smitims in that group too, although he too is missing on these new boards.

HS and I fell out frequently but I can't tell you how much I miss him and those others on these boards. There is hope that HS and smitims might decide to join us again of course. But the past is the past, and we can do nothing to bring it back, sadly.

[salymap]

I agree with every word Cellini. We can't get the past back but I hope we continue to be able to access the old MBs. I've been looking for the Beecham threadthat Davementioned but haven't found it so far. bws, saly

[Dave2002]

A few from the past ....

1. This is where we discussed Beecham recordings -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F6643901?thread=5851409

2. ..... plus a few more on various Beecham related topics

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F7497567?thread=7674281

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F6643901?thread=6152304

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F6643901?thread=6273133

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F7497567?thread=6110031

[BBMmk2]

Goodness, saw my post to the Beecham!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Dave, congratulations and thanks for your efforts re the BBC Beecham threads.

[salymap]

Off topic, it seems fitting that this thread had a false start [sorry!] and part has been moved. Tommy himself was laid to rest in the beautiful wild Brookwood Cemetery near Guildford,where I visited his grave, but later moved to Limpsfield, I believe.

[StephenO]

My only Beecham is Tchaikovsky symphony no.4.

In F minor.

There's a picture of him on the cover smoking a cigar. WHY do they do that?

3VS

Why shouldn't they? Beecham was almost as famous for his love of cigars as Churchill was.

I can't really see that a photo of Tommy with a cigar is going to tempt the young and innocent into a lifetime of nicotine addiction.

[antongould]

Off topic, it seems fitting that this thread had a false start [sorry!] and part has been moved. Tommy himself was laid to rest in the beautiful wild Brookwood Cemetery near Guildford,where I visited his grave, but later moved to Limpsfield, I believe.

Salymap
Does anyone in the SE stay put when they are "laid to rest"?

[Ferretfancy]

As I understand it, and amazing as it may seem, the Beecham Boheme was very much a last minute effort after other projects had fallen down while he was in America. The sessions were hastily organised and completed quite quickly. The studio used a 2 track machine,with the orchestra on one track and the voices on the other, so this was not stereo. The master was mixed from those tracks.
All this happened at short notice because Beecham's manager Andrew Schulhof realised that all the cast would be in New York at the same time, and seized the opportunity to set it up.
The Manhattan Centre was used on March 16th 1956, and subsequently between March 30th and April 6th, and the story goes that Victoria de los Angeles broke a journey to the airport to record some extra patches. I've taken this from the sleeve notes.

What does interest me is that the Manhattan Centre was used by Stokowski for his first stereo recordings, also in 1956, his selection from Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet is one example, and the stereo is excellent, so the Beecham Boheme must have been a missed opportunity for some reason.

Why

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As I understand it, and amazing as it may seem, the Beecham Boheme was very much a last minute effort after other projects had fallen down while he was in America. The sessions were hastily organised and completed quite quickly. The studio used a 2 track machine,with the orchestra on one track and the voices on the other, so this was not stereo. The master was mixed from those tracks.
All this happened at short notice because Beecham's manager Andrew Schulhof realised that all the cast would be in New York at the same time, and seized the opportunity to set it up.
The Manhattan Centre was used on March 16th 1956, and subsequently between March 30th and April 6th, and the story goes that Victoria de los Angeles broke a journey to the airport to record some extra patches. I've taken this from the sleeve notes.

What does interest me is that the Manhattan Centre was used by Stokowski for his first stereo recordings, also in 1956, his selection from Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet is one example, and the stereo is excellent, so the Beecham Boheme must have been a missed opportunity for some reason.

Why

A missed opportunity indeed, but I find that with good quality mono recordings, the listener soon adjusts.

[amateur51]

I enjoyed it very much and it helped me to decide which if any of these new boxes I might want to buy. Enticing stuff

[aeolium]

I could not disagree more about Beecham. He founded the RPO and co-founded the LPO, did an enormous amount for British musical life in the first half of the C20, including raising the reputation of Covent Garden internationally as both conductor and impresario. As Cowan remarked, he spent a lot of time on preparatory work for his performances and recordings, to ensure that the phrasing and articulation that he wanted were understood by the players. It is the quality of this phrasing, together with the clarity of the sound, that marks so many of his outstanding recordings. He programmed many new works, and in the early part of his career almost bankrupted himself by perversely programming works that would not bring in audiences - that is hardly the style of a 'self-indulgent man on a career long vanity project'.

To my mind he was one of the greatest contributors to the musical life of this country, and also one of its finest conductors (and one of the finest of any country).

[salymap]

I agree with amateur 51, it was a very enjoyable hour although I am trying not to buy any more CDs as I haven't caught up with the ones I have.

Draco, what a sad post, did you ever sit through the magic of a live Beecham concert? I do wonder.