BaL 14.12.13 - Wagner's Parsifal

[Thropplenoggin]

Very sorry to hear about the norovirus, Throppers - most unpleasant, I've heard Get well soon.

Does the credit for choosing the Kubelik correctly go to you or to the norovirus?

Thank you.

First nauseous twinge experienced at 12:40 Friday 13th , Parsifal prediction made at 22:51 on the 6th

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(down, but not out )

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The reviewer said there were 3 Knappertsbutsch recordings available but 8 are listed on the Presto Classical website.

[Petrushka]

The reviewer said there were 3 Knappertsbutsch recordings available but 8 are listed on the Presto Classical website.

Probably because the 1951, 1962 and 1964 are 'officially' available while the rest are on labels such as Archipel and Walhall and don't count. It's about time that BaL rethought this policy.

Incidentally, has anyone heard the 1964 version available on Orfeo? Might be worth acquiring.

[Nick Armstrong]

I'm tempted by the Haitink/Zurich DVD (the best of the bunch in David Nice's view) and, although I never thought that I would actually ever contemplate buying anything conducted by Christian Thielemann, was much struck by the VPO playing and the sound quality. But, for once, the credit card is staying in the wallet as none of them really had me getting too excited overall, although some of the examples (Christa Ludwig anyone?) were quite enticing.

I think this just about sums up my reaction to the review - not hugely experienced in this work, never heard from end to end... although I've owned the Karajan/BPO set for 20 years on CD (I listen just for that 'wall of sound' brass in the Prelude ... never really pressed on with it once the singers come in ) and was surprised that it got such short shrift from the Nice one. Disastrous recording and performance, seemed to be the conclusion: surely an overstatement?

Yes the Thielemann sounded terrific - and Domingo as Parsifal? Well, I've always loved the Jochum 'Meistersinger' with him as Walther, so wouldn't dismiss it.. and I thought Maier sounded fine even when Mr Nice was saying she didn't.

Likewise the Solti sounded terrific even when he said it wasn't - as Bbm mentions above, as if (like Ms Smith with Brahms PC#1) it was too 'epic' for him. Well if you can't be epic in Wagner...

Still, interesting to hear a definite point of view being exemplified and explained - the preference for performances which let the music just speak for itself is one I instinctively sympathise with, and like vinteuil I was somewhat persuaded by what one heard of the Kubelik.

I suppose I emerged like the judge after one of Marshall Hall's speeches - none the wiser but somewhat better informed...

[Thropplenoggin]

Likewise the Solti sounded terrific even when he said it wasn't - as Bbm mentions above, as if (like Ms Smith with Brahms PC#1) it was too 'epic' for him. Well if you can't be epic in Wagner...

I would hardly call this

How can any reviewer dismiss Solti or Wagner!?!!??

a coherent argument (my red highlighting).

[Nick Armstrong]

Which argument?

[Nick Armstrong]

Once again, Thropplenoggin calls it correctly

The thought did immediately occur, having only embarked on this thread once I'd heard the programme this morning. There's old T-Nog, I thought, getting his sixpence on the right nag again...

[Thropplenoggin]

Which argument?

I don't recall Nice criticising Wagner. Ergo, the 'or' is nonsensical. The 'epic' comment is also irrelevant.

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I expect the odds would have been quite long'n'all!

[Nick Armstrong]

The 'epic' comment is also irrelevant.

Not really - it occurred to me as I listened, that every time the performance we were hearing had something of the 'epic' about it (Solti, I think was the case in point) Mr Nice demolished it in favour of something more 'natural'...

[Thropplenoggin]

Not really - it occurred to me as I listened, that every time the performance we were hearing had something of the 'epic' about it (Solti, I think was the case in point) Mr Nice demolished it in favour of something more 'natural'...

Subjectivity is king. That's how he likes his Wagner, not how you like yours, tho' you say you haven't even heard Parsifal all the way through ("not hugely experienced in this work, never heard from end to end"), so perhaps he's better placed to speak on the subject.

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(wait for it...)

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(waaaaait for it...)

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[Richard Tarleton]

Must catch up with the rest of this BAL - only heard the first bit over breakfast in our B&B.

...though I've owned the Karajan/BPO set for 20 years on CD (I listen just for that 'wall of sound' brass in the Prelude ... never really pressed on with it once the singers come in ) and was surprised that it got such short shrift from the Nice one. Disastrous recording and performance, seemed to be the conclusion: surely an overstatement?

Funny how times and tastes change, it was still getting the old Penguin Guide rosette as late as 2002 (my most recent copy) - "Communion, musical and spiritual, is what this intensely beautiful Karajan set provides". And what a cast. I love it, tho' there is something strange that I can't quite put my finger on about the Kundry, Dunja Vejzovic...perhaps just good vocal acting?

Yes the Thielemann sounded terrific - and Domingo as Parsifal? Well, I've always loved the Jochum 'Meistersinger' with him as Walther

He was certainly marvellous in my first live (concert) Parsifal, and agreed about the Jochum Meistersinger.

[amateur51]

I suppose I emerged like the judge after one of Marshall Hall's speeches - none the wiser but somewhat better informed...

I used to love listening to Edgar Lustgarten's radio progs about Marshall Hall when I was a kid.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Funny how times and tastes change, it was still getting the old Penguin Guide rosette as late as 2002 (my most recent copy) - "Communion, musical and spiritual, is what this intensely beautiful Karajan set provides".

It is still thus (with **** rating) in the 2009 edition, my latest. The Thielemann gets the same but appears right at the top of the listing above the Karajan, which may mean it was marginally preferred.

[Nick Armstrong]

Subjectivity is king. That's how he likes his Wagner

...and how you like yours:

Best studio recording? Kubelik

... and maybe how I like mine:

I was somewhat persuaded by what one heard of the Kubelik

I freely admit I'm open to some mind-expansion on the subject of Parsifal

(Cue repartee from Kind Hearts and Coronets:

Sibella: He says he wants to expand his mind.
Louis Mazzini: He certainly has room to do so.

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[waldo]

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