BaL 14.12.13 - Wagner's Parsifal

[BBMmk2]

How can any reviewer dismiss Solti or Wagner!?!!?? have I missed something here, like in a recent BaL of Brahms's PC.1, where the reviewer dismissed Emil Gilels/Berliners and Jochum!!! (Being too epic, I thiunk she said(I think the reviewer was a woman?)

[LeMartinPecheur]

I get the feeling that he wanted to avoid the Solti recording at all costs.
Frick may have been "old" but he sings wonderfully, this is the best cast, the best orchestral sound and well conducted. Of all the commercial sets this is still the best.
Strange review.

He clearly loathed Solti's Klingsor, Zoltan Kelemen. He illustrated Christa Ludwig as Kundry with very favourable comments, not least for her mezzo top B, and IIRC indicated general approval of Solti's pacing.
I certainly had the impression that he would have been up near the front but for Kelemen!

I'd better check this out soon: I have the Solti sitting so far unplayed as my one and only Parsifal

[Black Swan]

Yes, interesting in his dismissal of Solti. I haven't been compelled by this BAL to run out and buy a new set. Interesting discussion. But unlike most BAL's I am not looking to purchase the recommended recording. I was hoping for some guidance on a DVD/Blue-Ray but he seemed to have a genuine dislike of Waltraude Meier who is Kundry on many of the DVD's. So I will listen to what I have currently. I have preordered the recent MET production on DVD with Kaufman so I will wait for that.

[slarty]

I have two rather traditional DVD sets in good stereo sound - The 1981 Bayreuth production by Wolfgang Wagner - which is more or less a copy of Wieland's ideas - very well sung by all and also well conducted by Horst Stein.
The other is the MET production from the around 1990 with Levine conducting - also a good cast. produced by Otto Schenk. splendid.
The Stein is a very good performance. I slightly prefer it to the Met.
I don't have issues with Meier singing Kundry. She is superb in this Met production with Jerusalem, who also sings the title role in the Bayreuth set.
I prefer Sotin's voice to Moll as Gurnemanz, but they are both good. I much prefer Stein's conducting to Levine, although it is faster than demonstrated on the BAL.

[Black Swan]

Thanks, I have the MET Levine Disc and it is my favorite. I also saw this production live at the MET. Meier was the first Kundry I saw who I actually thought could have seduced someone.

So I will stick with it. I will check out the 1981 Bayreuth Discs as well.

[slarty]

Thanks, I have the MET Levine Disc and it is my favorite. I also saw this production live at the MET. Meier was the first Kundry I saw who I actually thought could have seduced someone.

So I will stick with it. I will check out the 1981 Bayreuth Discs as well.

I agree with you about Meier, but I also saw Randova live in Stuttgart Easter 1977 (with Peter Hofmann) and met her backstage afterwards. She could have..........let's just say that Parsifal had nerves of steel to resist her, I could'nt. Wow! what a lady!

[gradus]

I was struck by the scathing remarks about various singers, perhaps justified but I didn't notice anything particularly awful although I made the mistake of assuming the review started at 9.30 and missed half of the comments and excerpts. Did he mention Boulez which I've always enjoyed?

[DracoM]

'Appalling Zoltan Kelleman'?
Hmm.

And actually, how much of Parsifal the character did we hear? Domingo, Vickers, King, and.............??
How many Klingsors did he register?

And if we're talking Chorus - and given how important the chorus writing is in 'Parsifal' to evoke the entire knightly community at Monsalvat- to have failed to mention the Solti choral forces - was inexplicable: Vienna Boys Choir doing the stratosphere to magical effect in Acts 1 and 3? And some staggeringly good singing and acting from the Vienna Men.

And I certainly agree about Moll - rock steady, warm sonority, got all the notes, but for me utterly without character. For all their age, both Hotter and Frick were echt Gurnemanzes: the guy is supposed to be an old man and getting older.

Alsp agree: the omission of D-Fieskau's much feted Amfortas was extraordinary.

As I feared, BAL's vendetta against Solti goes on.

[HighlandDougie]

Did he mention Boulez which I've always enjoyed?

Very fine in Act 2; a bit too swift in Acts 1 and 3; very complimentary about Gwyneth Jones, though.

I wouldn't know one Parsifal from the other but, having decided last year that I liked Wagner's music rather more than I would ever have admitted earlier in my life (I'm now too long in the tooth to worry too much about the ideological unsoundness of RW although he does strike one as a thoroughly unpleasant piece of work), I've been making my way through his oeuvre and, having "done" Tannhäuser, thought that I might try Parsifal next. So, like others quoted above, I was rather hoping that this BaL might point me in the right direction. I'm tempted by the Haitink/Zurich DVD (the best of the bunch in David Nice's view) and, although I never thought that I would actually ever contemplate buying anything conducted by Christian Thielemann, was much struck by the VPO playing and the sound quality. But, for once, the credit card is staying in the wallet as none of them really had me getting too excited overall, although some of the examples (Christa Ludwig anyone?) were quite enticing.

[slarty]

'Appalling Zoltan Kelleman'?
Hmm.

And actually, how much of Parsifal the character did we hear? Domingo, Vickers, King, and.............??
How many Klingsors did he register?

And if we're talking Chorus - and given how important the chorus writing is in 'Parsifal' to evoke the entire knightly community at Monsalvat- to have failed to mention the Solti choral forces - was inexplicable: Vienna Boys Choir doing the stratosphere to magical effect in Acts 1 and 3? And some staggeringly good singing and acting from the Vienna Men.

And I certainly agree about Moll - rock steady, warm sonority, got all the notes, but for me utterly without character. For all their age, both Hotter and Frick were echt Gurnemanzes: the guy is supposed to be an old man and getting older.

Alsp agree: the omission of D-Fieskau's much feted Amfortas was extraordinary.

As I feared, BAL's vendetta against Solti goes on.

I think you are right about Solti. It is also very remiss not to mention the great choral singing which is such an important part of Parsifal.
None of the Bayreuth versions are given any credit either for Pitz's great choral examples.
I realise that it is BaL and not the greatly missed Interpretations on Record, but I don't think it is fair to treat the live versions so out of hand.

As for Zoltan Kelemen, I saw him many times during the 70s and always thought him one of the finest of Wagner interpreters(He was also a fine Pizzarro for Karajan)

I started to get very angry at the point when he accused Hotter of "Almost barking"! - one could lay that comment right back at him (in the other context of course) and then he goes on to say that Knappertsbusch was overemphasizing the score.
It sounds as if any and all live performances are anathema to him.
Kubelik's experience with Parsifal was very limited, he certainly did not conduct it at CG. I think that this was his first and only traversal of the work.
It is smooth and more than a little superficial.
It is actually quite a good recommendation for people who don't much like Parsifal.

[vinteuil]

It is actually quite a good recommendation for people who don't much like Parsifal.

I like Parsifal.

I was persuaded by his advocacy of the Kubelik and shall be acquiring it.

Kubelik's performance .... is almost an HIP performance.
.

Probably explains why I liked it so much...


I also liked the Thielemann.

I shall of course go on listening to the Solti, Goodman, Boulez, Karajan, and various Knae sitting on the shelves.


.

.


... incidentally (if you're brave enough to withstand slarty's derision... ) I see that Sainsbury's are offering the Kubelik for some £34



.

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[Thropplenoggin]

Once again, Thropplenoggin calls it correctly:

Best studio recording? Kubelik. Pricey even now, unfairly shelved to let Karajan hog the limelight, but great singers (Kurt Moll, James King, Yvonne Minton). My introduction to the work was Solti - still sounds great, too.

Not sure why AMcG felt the need to play 5 minutes of Bach as an amuse-bouche for the Gush-fest®*, which would have been better spent on the BaL. The BaL was a noble effort for such a long opera with so many versions. I found it interesting, thought he covered a lot of ground and recordings, and came away wiser and, pending the abatement of my first brush with the norovirus, with palate suitably whetted for Wednesday's performance. My only cavil is that one of the 'Kna's (not 'Knae') should have got the nod as historical recording.

*Caliban

[amateur51]

Once again, Thropplenoggin calls it correctly:




...pending the abatement of my first brush with the norovirus, ...

Very sorry to hear about the norovirus, Throppers - most unpleasant, I've heard Get well soon.

Does the credit for choosing the Kubelik correctly go to you or to the norovirus?

[Madame Suggia]

missed the show completely as sadly last night while sleeping I had a break in :-(

After police visits etc I settled down to the complete 1962 Bayreuth performance on cd.

Thanks Kna

[amateur51]

missed the show completely as sadly last night while sleeping I had a break in :-(

After police visits etc I settled down to the complete 1962 Bayreuth performance on cd.

Thanks Kna

Very sorry to hear about your break-in Madame Suggia, especially as you were asleep. I hope that you get over the shock pronto