BaL 9.11.13 Shostakovitch Symphony no. 8

[HighlandDougie]

Hmm ..... Petrenko. Not very convincingly to my ears but I'm going to hear the symphony on Tuesday night so it was good to hear the programme.

[Petrushka]

I started a thread a while back on the Petrenko Shoster 8 http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...o+shostakovich There would appear to be a fair few boarders who will take a rapid unauthorised exeat should Stephen J pick this one...

I await the howls of protest with interest. I don't need another version so shan't be investing.

[Barbirollians]

I await the howls of protest with interest. I don't need another version so shan't be investing.

Interesting choice . I like his Leningrad and 5 and 9 but haven't heard his 8th .

[verismissimo]

Missed it - who won ?

Petrenko.

[BBMmk2]

I expect he found Haitink too mannered? What did he say of Barshai(his one on Brilliant Classics), and Jansons's on EMI?

[Colonel Danby]

As schoolboys and in blazers, in 1983, my brother and I were in the audience at the Town Hall Birmingham for a performance by the CBSO of Shostakovich's Eighth Symphony conducted by his son Maxim. We were completely knocked sideways by the music as we'd never really heard his stuff before. I remember my bro rushing out the next day to buy Haitink's LP version with the Concertgebouw on Decca, but I will play safe with the CD version of Neeme Järvi's wonderful account on Chandos.

I wonder which recording Stephen Johnson will choose, as I rate this critic very highly: his 'Discovering Music' series in between concerts on Radio 3 are never less than revelatory.

[muzzer]

Yes, I agree that SJ is an enthusing communicator. I'm new to this work. I have the Barshai set on Brilliant Classics. I am now tempted by the Haitink set. Hmmm. Christmas is coming..

[LeMartinPecheur]

I await the howls of protest with interest. I don't need another version so shan't be investing.

Well, I have to concede the (very faint) possibility that my mate and I got it wrong, had our cloth ears on for our Petrenko 8 listening session in the earlier thread

We did think it was very well, in fact too well, played, no ragged edges of scalding (freezing?) emotion. Maybe we'll give it another spin. Have to say that what I heard today (car radio only unfortunately though concentrating, just sitting waiting for daughter to emerge from ballet lesson) - and indeed SJ's own statements about what he found good in it - didn't make me rethink.

Perhaps SJ was looking for the best-integrated symphonic exposition of the piece, where I want more of what I feel is its emotional roller-coaster, even if this means a few rough edges? The Russians used to do this to the manner born, naturally, but I also very much like Previn (my first recording) and Haitink. Indeed for most works and recordings I'd see myself as getting my kicks from the symphonic-grand-design aspect rather than the emotional trip... (I'm a Boult man not a Bernstein for instance). But for me the P has some crucial element completely missing.

Have to say I was amazed that SJ didn't leave his version behind after his final summary of its merits: he seemed still poised to announce the outright winner with all of P's virtues but some extra magic on top. I thought it might have been Haitink or one of the better Russians (not Rostropovich, Mravinsky or Barshai; maybe Kondrashin??) .

[Nick Armstrong]

what's the odds that Stephen Johnson picks Petrenko ?

I enjoyed being reminded of the splendour of this piece - those savage inner movements, that Passacaglia, that heavenly transition into the last movement - and of several of the recordings - the Rostropovich slow movement, the paint-stripping brass (in a good way!) of Mravinsky and Kondrashin, the impact of Haitink, the energy of Previn (the one I had on LP as a teenager).

It was pretty clear that Vassily Petrenko was being singled-out as teacher's pet from his first appearance... yes, a very good 'all-rounder' I suspect, but I need something more extreme in this piece.

However for a way in, why not?

I must listen to the Barshai/WDR version (Bbm - SJ referred to it by implication, saying that he thought that Barshai's earlier Bournemouth performance was 'the better one')

[LaurieWatt]

I enjoyed being reminded of the splendour of this piece - those savage inner movements, that Passacaglia, that heavenly transition into the last movement - and of several of the recordings - the Rostropovich slow movement, the paint-stripping brass (in a good way!) of Mravinsky and Kondrashin, the impact of Haitink, the energy of Previn (the one I had on LP as a teenager).

It was pretty clear that Vassily Petrenko was being singled-out as teacher's pet from his first appearance... yes, a very good 'all-rounder' I suspect, but I need something more extreme in this piece.

However for a way in, why not?

I must listen to the Barshai/WDR version (Bbm - SJ referred to it by implication, saying that he thought that Barshai's earlier Bournemouth performance was 'the better one')

Yes, it was nice that he got in the Barshai/Bournemouth recording despite its apparent deletion and availability.. I always enjoy SJ's reviews on BAL even if he gets it wrong sometimes. I am not sure about today as I have not heard Petrenko's 8th but I have remedied that today and look forward to listening to it. I have most of the others that he discussed although I was disappointed Rozhedestvensky/LPO did not get a look in, but, I do not have a clear favourite as the best ones all have something different to offer. The opening of Haitink as demonstrated is terrific but Haitink tends to go for the despair which I think is wrong. The ones who get the resignation are better and that is why I like Barshai and the Bournemouth so much. He discussed the symphony endlessly with the composer (I know because he told me) and you can be sure that the separated flutter tongue flutes at the end, which SJ criticised, were the subject of such discussion.

[LeMartinPecheur]

BaL should be on one hell of a commission-rate from the River-people and their Mkt-place sellers. I've just ordered the standard Mravinsky and the BSO/Barshai(*) Beginning to think I like this work - only have 5 versions already on the shelves! BUT I haven't invested in the Petrenko (see above and related thread!).

(*) Hope but don't expect that Hornspieler is still on commission...

[amateur51]

Yes, it was nice that he got in the Barshai/Bournemouth recording despite its apparent deletion and availability.. I always enjoy SJ's reviews on BAL even if he gets it wrong sometimes. I am not sure about today as I have not heard Petrenko's 8th but I have remedied that today and look forward to listening to it. I have most of the others that he discussed although I was disappointed Rozhedestvensky/LPO did not get a look in, but, I do not have a clear favourite as the best ones all have something different to offer. The opening of Haitink as demonstrated is terrific but Haitink tends to go for the despair which I think is wrong. The ones who get the resignation are better and that is why I like Barshai and the Bournemouth so much. He discussed the symphony endlessly with the composer (I know because he told me) and you can be sure that the separated flutter tongue flutes at the end, which SJ criticised, were the subject of such discussion.

Interesting Barshai story LaurieWatt - many thanks

[Barbirollians]

I have just listened to it on iplayer . The Previn sounded marvellous still to my ears especially the extract from the first movement.

I couldn't understand why he compared it unfavourably to the Jarvi extract he played shortly afterwards. I wasn't so taken with the Haitink - it seemed to me to have the elements of calculation he criticised Rostropovich for - rather unfairly I thought.

I was minded to add the Rostropovich LSO Live recording to my library of the Previn ( both versions) Barshai ( Brilliant) Mravinsky and Jarvi .

[Alison]

As usual with SJ I found his most illuminating comments concerned the music itself rather than the performance of it. The hero of Discovering Music turns out to be a critic I find difficult to trust.

[LeMartinPecheur]

As usual with SJ I found his most illuminating comments concerned the music itself rather than the performance of it.

I rather agree but wonder if we aren't bumping up a perhaps inherent problem with the BaL format in today's market.

Back when I first started listening to the programme c1971 there were of course far fewer versions to consider. Then if memory serves, it was possible to illustrate enough from bad versions to illuminate the musical analysis, by showing interpretative choices simply that didn't match the score, or more subjectively just didn't work.

These days bad versions don't last long in the catalogue and there are always enough good versions to keep the reviewer quite busy enough, as in today's programme. That's just how it is, but I'm thinking that we do learn less via BaL about what makes or breaks a performance, and the inner workings of the work itself. It makes for a much more 'samey' programme IMHO: you have to listen with far more concentratedly, with ultra-sensitive ears, to grasp the points being made.

There are exceptions of course - for me Mr Owen Norris gives more revelations than most, as for instance when on Elgar's In the South he said something about E's use of some unimportant, uninteresting bars and then said that these were absolutely necessary to give proper punctuation to the musical argument. He then went on to opine that for him one of the crucial problems with serialism is that its theory leads to every bar having almost equal importance in the musical argument. No pause for emphasis before the next important turn of the work.
Maybekindoflikewritingsentencesallthetimelikethisa ndthatsbeforeigettoaddingsubordinateclausessojustb ecauseimnota sadistiwont?

[Can'tworkoutwhytheboardseemstobeaddingspaceswherei dontwantthem...]