BaL 2.11.13 - Brahms Piano Concerto no. 1 in D minor

[Beef Oven!]

Not so sure about that Beefy. Miss Haversham croaked in 1860 while, by my reckoning, the first Brahms Pc1 recording dates back to 1932.

I'll get me coat.....

[amateur51]

You worry about the wrong things all the time.

Rome is burning and you're fiddling with detail.

Yes Dad.

[Beef Oven!]

Yes Dad.

Now tidy your room.

[Barbirollians]

Yes Dad.

Nigel Farage would be proud of him ams .

[rauschwerk]

What tends to lead to most disquiet with BAL is the cursory dismissal of what have been regarded as " benchmark " versions - indeed she used that word herself re the Gilels/Jochum and Curzon/Szell without substantive reasons being given .

She described Gilels's playing as "characteristically eloquent", following it up with, "But, for me, (my italics) aristocratic though Gilels's playing unquestionably is, this 1972 reading is too drawn out as a whole."

If that is not what you call a substantive reason, then what is? The illustration she chose (second subject beginning at bar 157) is marked poco piu moderato, yet Gilels, in common with a good many pianists, takes it a lot slower than the main tempo. This piece is, as Ms Smith regularly reminded us, young man's music.

[Barbirollians]

She described Gilels's playing as "characteristically eloquent", following it up with, "But, for me, (my italics) aristocratic though Gilels's playing unquestionably is, this 1972 reading is too drawn out as a whole."

If that is not what you call a substantive reason, then what is? The illustration she chose (second subject beginning at bar 157) is marked poco piu moderato, yet Gilels, in common with a good many pianists, takes it a lot slower than the main tempo. This piece is, as Ms Smith regularly reminded us, young man's music.

What does too drawn out as a whole mean ? Too slow at every point ? Too slow only in one movement . This is Brahms PC 1 not a 100 metre sprint.

Aristocratic ? What a cliche and a bizarre one for Gilels whose playing strikes me as far from aloof .

The root of my disagreement with her is apparent belief that this is not an epic work . I can think of few more epic - the longest piano concerto ever written up to that time , the first movement conceived as a symphony and described as a symphony with piano obbligato and written by a young man overawed by Beethoven .

[Sir Velo]

The root of my disagreement with her is apparent belief that this is not an epic work . I can think of few more epic - the longest piano concerto ever written up to that time , the first movement conceived as a symphony and described as a symphony with piano obbligato and written by a young man overawed by Beethoven .

I think her conception of the work is that it is dramatic, even tragic, rather than epic per se. There is a distinction between these genres which those who have studied Eng Lit at degree level will have had burnt into our skulls! The Second PC is indubitably epic, of course.

[akiralx]

I think her conception of the work is that it is dramatic, even tragic, rather than epic per se. ... The Second PC is indubitably epic, of course.

Yes, I would tend to agree - didn't performances pre-WWII tend to last below 40 mins in many cases (I'm thinking Horowitz with Toscanini or Walter). I find this work fiery, dramatic and tragic rather than epic.

I actually like BAL for trying to treat all recordings objectively, and not relying on reputations. If that means a few sacred cows get debunked, then it may mean that while they were leading choices a few decades ago, they aren't now.

I listened to the Gilels/Jochum Brahms concerti many years ago and enjoyed them - listening again to the First Concerto a couple of months ago, I found it rather meandering and Jochum's conducting pretty slack. Rattle's conducting of the same orchestra for Zimerman is much finer IMHO - more intense and dramatic. I didn't really enjoy it to be honest, for a favourite work of mine.

[Alison]

So what's her idea of the piece then? Light comedy? A mere bagatelle? I mean, FHS, if this piece isn't epic then, frankly, nothing in the repertory is!

Have you changed your mind now Sir V ??

[Sir Velo]

Have you changed your mind now Sir V ??

TBH Alison, having now heard the BAL, I understand what Harriet Smith was driving at; not that the work isn't on a large scale (which would be patently ridiculous!) but that its underlying conception is dramatic, or tragic (certainly the case of the first movement) rather than purely epic. There is a propulsive energy about the work which doesn't sit well with the epic view of it. As has been remarked elsewhere, it is a young man's work (that image of Brahms as a greasy, beery old greybeard dies hard!).

[BBMmk2]

Maybe I should rethink my view on this and No.2 as well, Sir Velo?

[Jonathan]

I just wondered if anyone had heard the new Stephen Hough recording on Hyperion of both concerti? If so, does anyone have any opinions about it? I have heard the snippets on Hyperion's website and it sounds very good to me.

[BBMmk2]

I would love Marc-Andre Hamlin to play these?

[Rolmill]

I would love Marc-Andre Hamlin to play these?

Well BBM, he has recorded no.2 for Hyperion already - it's pretty good (often quite chamber music like), though doesn't displace Gilels, Freire or Richter in my affections.

[BBMmk2]

Well BBM, he has recorded no.2 for Hyperion already - it's pretty good (often quite chamber music like), though doesn't displace Gilels, Freire or Richter in my affections.

At least I am not the only one that thinks that!!