BaL 14.09.13 Bartok's Dance Suite

[LeMartinPecheur]

More often than not, this is a result of the engineers' tinkerings.

A fair point in general EA but you can't tell me that the trombones in Dance 2 were really playing quietly, and it's only the engineers who've made them sound so aggressive and rude!

[Nick Armstrong]

I don't understand the references to Rob Cowan 'wittering' or being 'bumptious'. I thought it was an interesting BAL, admittedly about a work I don't know. He did put the boot into Solti, to whose mast several above seem to have nailed their colours, but to the dispassionate listener, the illustrations backed up RC's argument and I saw no reason to doubt, based on what we heard, that

a lot of what Solti does is demonstrably wrong according to the score (e.g. quiet backround details pushed right up the front of the audio picture). I think he said that this is the case with the trombone rasps.

AMcG said that the chosen version will be on Essential Classics just after 11am tomorrow. I'll have a listen - the Kocsis sounded pretty good. Not sure I like the music enough to add it to the old library though

[Black Swan]

Thanks, Caliban, you are right and we all have our thoughts. I grew up in Chicago during the Solti era and he has always been esteemed by me.

I am confused on the recommended recording.
Kocsis/HNPO- Bartok Concerto for Orchestra/Dance Suite
Kocsis/HNPO - Bartok Suites including the Dance Suite.
Both on Hungariton


Can anyone clarify?

[Nick Armstrong]

I grew up in Chicago during the Solti era and he has always been esteemed by me.

Lucky you! Oh yes, GS was terrific at some things - one of my handful of best evenings ever in the theatre was him conducting Strauss's Elektra - absolutely overwhelming, the whole thing felt like one big paragraph of music and action during which one hadn't been able to breathe once...

But then... I was browsing youtube and there's a live Four Last Songs in Chicago - maybe you were there!! - with GS punching his way through "Im Abendrot" and making a nonsense of the music to my ears...

(From about 5'40" here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPYNZuF--Lk .... Poor old Lucia Popp )


Can't help with the version of Kocsis, the CD Review webpage gives no help, does it... Aren't they just differently-coupled releases of the same performance?

[Black Swan]

Caliban,

I do consider myself very lucky. As a young student from the Cornfields of Indiana to hear the orchestra under Solti was a dream. Mind you I was raised close to Bloomington, Indiana home of Indiana University which did allow me to hear may great concerts. Including Janos Starker's Faculty Recitals. I think I have always idolized Solti because he was so well hyped in the USA. His Chicago Symphony displaced many of the old school Orchestras. Much of this was probably at that time the other orchestras did not have such dynamic conductors.

But I totally agree he was not perfect by any means. I am trying to understand about the couplings and which I see as more desirable. And as you state the web site gives no clue. I really liked the old practice of putting the selected CD on the CD review website, but alas they have discontinued that as well.

Thanks for your reply.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Can anyone clarify?

The timings of the movements of the Dance Suite on both CDs are identical in every respect, suggesting that it's the same performance.

[soileduk]

The timings of the movements of the Dance Suite on both CDs are identical in every respect, suggesting that it's the same performance.

The Dance suite was originally issued along with Hungarian peasant songs on the Concerto for orchestra disc HSACD32187. When Hungaroton embarked on the Bartok new series they re-used the Dance suite on disc 6 of the series HSACD32506 along with Suite No.2.
You'll find that Hungarian peasant songs from the original Concerto disc has been re-used on disc 5 of the Bartok new series.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Dance suite was originally issued along with Hungarian peasant songs on the Concerto for orchestra disc HSACD32187. When Hungaroton embarked on the Bartok new series they re-used the Dance suite on disc 6 of the series HSACD32506 along with Suite No.2.
You'll find that Hungarian peasant songs from the original Concerto disc has been re-used on disc 5 of the Bartok new series.

[Black Swan]

The Dance suite was originally issued along with Hungarian peasant songs on the Concerto for orchestra disc HSACD32187. When Hungaroton embarked on the Bartok new series they re-used the Dance suite on disc 6 of the series HSACD32506 along with Suite No.2.
You'll find that Hungarian peasant songs from the original Concerto disc has been re-used on disc 5 of the Bartok new series.

Thanks for the clarification so it just depends on which couplings you like best.

[Bryn]

Ah, my mistake, I could have sworn you mentioned Presto Classical not MDT.

Oops, I do often get those two merchants mixed up. I note that Presto are now showing it as in stock, but at £12.00. Only a few days to go on the MDT offer (£10.95 including £1.00 p&p).

[johnb]

Unless I managed to miss it, there was no mention of the chosen recording being spun during next Monday's CD Classics, and there is no sign of it on the schedule listing for that programme either. Is this another change for the autumn schedule?

The recording was included in Monday's EC, should anyone want to listen to the complete performance.

[Bryn]

The recording was included in Monday's EC, should anyone want to listen to the complete performance.

I caught it yesterday afternoon, thanks.

[rauschwerk]

The recording was included in Monday's EC, should anyone want to listen to the complete performance.

I heard it in the car on Monday and it struck me that Kocsis was perhaps much more scrupulous than Solti (whose LSO recording used often to be on my turntable) in observing Bartok's frequent and often tiny tempo changes. This impression was confirmed by another hearing with the score just now.

My inner anorak has been fascinated by the tenor drums used on different recordings (the first sound in the piece is a tenor drum roll). Some have snares, some not (the normally obsessive Bartok doesn't specify) but according to Grove that's normal: British tenor drums are unsnared but elsewhere snares are optional. You learn something new every day.

[Barbirollians]

Received a second hand copy of the Dorati in the post this morning - absolutely stunning !