BaL 1.06.13 - Brahms Symphony no 2 in D

[silvestrione]

By golly, Barbirollians, you were jolly well right about Walter's account! It's superb! Dare I say after our little contre-temps that I even prefer it to the Jurowski? What was SJ thinking?!! It's paired with No.3 and about to be ordered by me.

Given R3's new-found love for all things Tweetie-pie, e-missive, Freakbook et al, wouldn't it actually be good to use this interactivity to engage the audience in something they clearly feel strongly about - BaL. A bit of feedback the following week on listener's reactions to the choice, in which they could highlight omissions, random dismissals, give their own favourites. Or, alternatively, have the reviewer on to respond to that feedback a la R4's show, um, Feedback.

What a superb idea! Hope Andrew/BBC are listening....

[BBMmk2]

I doubt wether that would happen, but yuou would never know!!

Does that mean i will have to buy the Bruno Walter as well!!?!??

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Does that mean i will have to buy the Bruno Walter as well!!?!??

'fraid so, Bbm!

Remember: it's only money!

[visualnickmos]

Does that mean i will have to buy the Bruno Walter as well!!?!??

I just listened to Walter's Brahms second symphony. It is with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, recorded in 1960. It is beautifully played, measured, and everything knitting together seamlessly. There is some wonderful horn playing.

Did BW record an earlier - possibly mono version - with the NYPO? Just curious, that's all. The recording I just mentioned is just fine.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Did BW record an earlier - possibly mono version - with the NYPO? Just curious, that's all. The recording I just mentioned is just fine.

He did, indeed, visnick:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-4-Symphonies-Johannes/dp/B00008OETE/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1370545926&sr=8-14&keywords=bruno+walter%2C+brahms%2C+new+york

The later Stereo set is the one I was referring to when I replied to Bbm - it is quite wonderful.

But, researching the NYPO set, I discovered that the recording of the Third Symphony that I borrowed from the Public Library in the mid-1970s (the one from which I got to know the piece) was this NYPO version; not, as I'd always thought, the later CSO!

This one, in fact:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/5605-Brahms-Symphony-Bruno-Walter/dp/B004AX0YKE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370546206&sr=8-1&keywords=bruno+walter%2C+brahms%2C+nypo

[Barbirollians]

I just listened to Walter's Brahms second symphony. It is with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, recorded in 1960. It is beautifully played, measured, and everything knitting together seamlessly. There is some wonderful horn playing.

Did BW record an earlier - possibly mono version - with the NYPO? Just curious, that's all. The recording I just mentioned is just fine.

Yes he recorded an earlier set with the NYPO - some prefer them ( makropoulos does I think ) but I do prefer the later warmer Columbia SO tapings - though the NYPO records are thrilling .

The Columbia SO No2 and 3 are indeed magnificent , which is why i was so surprised that Walter was not even mentioned in this BAL.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes he recorded an earlier set with the NYPO

There you go, visnick - you wait three hours for a reply and then two come along together!

The Columbia SO No2 and 3 are indeed magnificent , which is why i was so surprised that Walter was not even mentioned in this BAL.

Were any recordings from the '60s or '70s considered? (Karajan's Philharmonia is from the '50s, Furtwangler's from the '40s.)

[Barbirollians]

There you go, visnick - you wait three hours for a reply and then two come along together!



Were any recordings from the '60s or '70s considered? (Karajan's Philharmonia is from the '50s, Furtwangler's from the '40s.)

Karajan's 1977 version was sharply dismissed and as mentioned above Boult's early 1970s account was briefly praised but then not mentioned and of course the Cgebouw Hiatink was in the running but otherwise you are right - Barbirolli, Loughran , the later Jochum, etc were not mentioned .

[silvestrione]

Karajan's 1977 version was sharply dismissed .

That's a bit strong...SJ obviously admired it and played two extracts, but thought there was an emphasis on overall conception and structure, with a lack humanity in the details of the interpretation (my paraphrase).

[seabright]

Yes he recorded an earlier set with the NYPO - some prefer them ( makropoulos does I think ) but I do prefer the later warmer Columbia SO tapings - though the NYPO records are thrilling .

The Columbia SO No2 and 3 are indeed magnificent , which is why i was so surprised that Walter was not even mentioned in this BAL.

Bruno Walter's 1953 NYPO Brahms 2 is uploaded complete on You Tube, as indeed are a dozen or more other versions ... This Walter version is indeed lovely and the sound is excellent ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8QTqRcFl4c

[visualnickmos]

There you go, visnick - you wait three hours for a reply and then two come along together!

I lived in London for over 25 years and visit regularly, so am well-used to the notion of 2 or even 3 turning up in convoy!

Thanks to ferney and barbs - as always perfect and concise. I have to say that I do sort of prefer Walter's Columbia recording of the 2nd over Jurowski's, (although that is based only on the extracts played) but we're really splitting hairs, I think. The entire set of Walter's is excellent throughout and the recorded sound is magnificent.

[BBMmk2]

I have meant to have mentioned about HvKs set, Ferney. Surely one of the best around?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have meant to have mentioned about HvKs set, Ferney. Surely one of the best around?

As was his wont, Karajan made three complete sets, Bbm - in the '60s, '70s and '80s. They're all quite superb (the sound on the Digital set isn't the best - rather muffled, as if they were deliberately trying to avoid the often clinically bright sound of early some early Digital recordings; if so, they went almost to the opposite extreme) and the '70s set (which some people find the best of the lot) is available for pennies:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-Symphonies-Herbert-von-Karajan/dp/B000007ODY/ref=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1370682806&sr=1-8&keywords=karajan%2C+brahms

... and I would recommend this set for anyone on a budget wanting a great set of the Brahms Symphonies. I think his best recording of the Second is the one he made with the Philharmonia:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-Symphony-No-2-Schubert-Unfinished/dp/B000PGTHPI/ref=sr_1_10?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1370682806&sr=1-10&keywords=karajan%2C+brahms

... £3, for Evans' sake!!


Having said all that (and the following gets me blackballed from admission to the "Herbie Infallability Society" - monthly fanzine HIS Master's Voice), I'm not entirely sure that I'd prefer any of Das Wunder's splendid sets to those of Szell, Walter ... or even Loughran! (At which point, the HIS hire a hitman.) They're all "one of the best", yes, but not "board sweeping" in ways that HvK could be in other repertoire (not least the German Requiem).

[BBMmk2]

Ah Loughran, Ferney!!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ah Loughran, Ferney!!

... though Klemperer should also have been on my list!