BaL 1.06.13 - Brahms Symphony no 2 in D

[Barbirollians]

Boult was briefly mentioned , complimented and otherwise ignored . Does anyone edit these BALs ?

[Thropplenoggin]

Boult was briefly mentioned , complimented and otherwise ignored . Does anyone edit these BALs ?

How much time would you like the reviewer to devote to every extant recording of the work under review exactly?

[Barbirollians]

How much time would you like the reviewer to devote to every extant recording of the work under review exactly?

That is not the point . If you are going to mention a recording and praise a movement - it is I believe incumbent on the reviewer to explain why it has been discarded .

[Pabmusic]

Boult was briefly mentioned , complimented and otherwise ignored . Does anyone edit these BALs ?

Yes. What I found frustrating was that, having complimented Boult highly against Karajan over the third movement, SJ didn't give any indication as to whether the other movements matched up. Do we infer that they didn't - if so, why single out the third?

[Barbirollians]

Yes. What I found frustrating was that, having complimented Boult highly against Karajan over the third movement, SJ didn't give any indication as to whether the other movements matched up. Do we infer that they didn't - if so, why single out the third?

Exactly -especially when this is a recording that has been widely praised since it was first released including on its recent re-release in IRR .

[Thropplenoggin]

Exactly -especially when this is a recording that has been widely praised since it was first released including on its recent re-release in IRR .

I'm reminded of Shankly's quote about football: 'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.'

It's one man's opinion about Brahms 2. Get over it.

[Barbirollians]

I'm reminded of Shankly's quote about football: 'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.'

It's one man's opinion about Brahms 2. Get over it.

You seem to be in a rather combative mood this evening Throps . It may be one man's opinion but its purpose is to Build A Library for a novitiate . If the reviewer proposes to put off such buyers from one recording in favour of his own - and has just praised one movement but ignored the other three how does it assist a buyer ? By blindly following the reviewer ?

Hence , I find it perfectly appropriate to criticise SJ's BAL and its editing .

[akiralx]

I wonder if my favourite VPO/Bohm on DG got mentioned.

I have just ordered the earlier Abbado multi-orchestra cycle on DG Japanese CDs from Tower - if only to hear the Third played 'Mantovani-style' by the Staatskapelle Dresden as per Caliban's father...

The set did get quite good reviews from my Gramophone searches.

[soileduk]

It's one man's opinion about Brahms 2. Get over it.

Surely this is a valid point. If the purpose of a BAL result is to provide a recommendation for someone new to the work then shouldn't it be a point to expand out from and not,necessarily,focus into . For those of us with far too many versions already then,surely,it would be a point from which to re evaluate our collection. SJ,or any other reviewer for that matter, can only provide that catalyst as they see it. It is then up to the individual to decide how to use it.

[LaurieWatt]

Surely this is a valid point. If the purpose of a BAL result is to provide a recommendation for someone new to the work then shouldn't it be a point to expand out from and not,necessarily,focus into . For those of us with far too many versions already then,surely,it would be a point from which to re evaluate our collection. SJ,or any other reviewer for that matter, can only provide that catalyst as they see it. It is then up to the individual to decide how to use it.

And I think that the other point which tends to be forgotten amongst the deluge of our favourites is that the last few recordings in the running, as with SJ, are always acknowledged, actually or implicitly, by the reviewer to be outstanding performances, but for BAL, under current practice, he does have to have a single choice.

I do think that, where it is a close final choice, there is a good argument for a, say, top three or something like that - and that those chosen should all appear in the recommended list, thereafter. They already do it where the recommended version is ancient art and where a modern recording is recommended.

[makropulos]

And I think that the other point which tends to be forgotten amongst the deluge of our favourites is that the last few recordings in the running, as with SJ, are always acknowledged, actually or implicitly, by the reviewer to be outstanding performances, but for BAL, under current practice, he does have to have a single choice.

I do think that, where it is a close final choice, there is a good argument for a, say, top three or something like that - and that those chosen should all appear in the recommended list, thereafter. They already do it where the recommended version is ancient art and where a modern recording is recommended.

I'd agree with all of that. In fairness to SJ, I distinctly remember a moment near the end when he summed up his top three as Jochum (mono), Haitink (COA) and Jurowski, but - as you say - they don't all usually appear in the recommended list. Still, with a work like Brahms 2, it's never going to be easy. At least half a dozen of my favourite performances weren't mentioned at all, but I thought SJ took an intelligent and fair-minded approach to the thing.

[cloughie]

I'm reminded of Shankly's quote about football: 'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.'

It's one man's opinion about Brahms 2. Get over it.

...and Brahms 2 is bigger than one man's opinion - and my opinion - it's the best Brahms Symphony and there are many fine recordings. Just a thought regarding 2nd symphonies generally. There are few bad ones - the composer has got over the angst and teething troubles of the first and still have loads of fresh ideas having mastered the skill of symphonic writing.

[Barbirollians]

I'd agree with all of that. In fairness to SJ, I distinctly remember a moment near the end when he summed up his top three as Jochum (mono), Haitink (COA) and Jurowski, but - as you say - they don't all usually appear in the recommended list. Still, with a work like Brahms 2, it's never going to be easy. At least half a dozen of my favourite performances weren't mentioned at all, but I thought SJ took an intelligent and fair-minded approach to the thing.

We are moving away rather from my point . Of course we can all fulminate ( as I happily did earlier ) about the missing performances from a BAL . In some cases it may indeed be only personal preference - in others missing out an acknowledged classic would be absurd - consider a BAL of Beethoven 5 that ignored the VPO/Kleiber or a Puccini Tosca that ignored Callas/De Sabata for example . I do feel that Walter in particular called for an explanation of his exclusion in this case .

The point is that when a recording appears as did the Boult - was praised roundly for the movement that was played - only then for no reason to be given as to its discard then surely it is incumbent on the reviewer to give an explanation . A listener might well think - I loved that Boult excerpt - why has he dropped out of the running ? A terrible edit , an absurd tempo in the finale , scrappy wind playing ???

Klemperer also made its way into his list by the way .

[Andrew Preview]

Nothing like that admittedly jarring moment in 1(iv).

Thanks Alison. On that basis, I'll spare some time to audition it on Spotify. It'll have to be pretty darn good for me to add to the apparently non-stellar recordings by Abbado, Rattle and Jansons in my collection. Incidentally, I also have Riccardo Chailly's recording with the Concertgebouw. That was the winner last time out on BaL, but didn't even merit a mention this time - just to drive home the "one person's opinion" point.

[BBMmk2]

I heard the whole recording on RC#s programme this morning. I thoroughly enjoyed VJ's reading. Seemed to flow rather well. I maybe biased about the LPO, as i have worked with some of them!