BaL 27.04.13 - Tchaikovsky's Hamlet Fantasy Overture Op.67

[ostuni]

I can understand that a number of posters imprinted on the Stokowski at an impressionable age. I didn't, and was rather surprised to find it on my shelves this evening - I must have bought it for the Francesca da R, because listening to this morning's BaL brought home (i) how little I know the piece and (ii) how much I'd like to remedy the situation.

So tonight I settled down with my Stokowski cd, and a newly downloaded score, and listened with innocent ears. And I'm afraid I can quite see why SW didn't have it on his short list - the recorded sound is really pretty rough. And there were a couple of moments where S seems to have rewritten the woodwind parts.

I was really impressed with the string playing on the Bernstein Israel PO extracts this morning, so downloaded that (£2.25), and listened all the way through again. And I very much liked what I heard, both in terms of the recording, and the interpretation. So I, for one, am very happy with SW's first choice.

[Barbirollians]

I don't know Lenny's recording but if you find the Stokowski recording rough you must have very refined ears - heavens knows what you would make of some of Pye's ropey efforts for Barbirolli from around the same time.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So tonight I settled down with my Stokowski cd, and a newly downloaded score, and listened with innocent ears. And I'm afraid I can quite see why SW didn't have it on his short list - the recorded sound is really pretty rough. And there were a couple of moments where S seems to have rewritten the woodwind parts.

Yes, I can understand this. But I think that the point people are making here isn't really that "SW didn't have it on his shortlist" but that he didn't have it on his long list either. As the Stokowski is so famous a recording (Rossettes from the Penguins, spoken of in tones of hushed awe elsewhere) and as it is still readily available, it should have at least featured, even if only to be dismissed (on whatever reasonable Musical, recording grounds).

[LaurieWatt]

Coconut Shy

Yes, I can understand this. But I think that the point people are making here isn't really that "SW didn't have it on his shortlist" but that he didn't have it on his long list either. As the Stokowski is so famous a recording (Rossettes from the Penguins, spoken of in tones of hushed awe elsewhere) and as it is still readily available, it should have at least featured, even if only to be dismissed (on whatever reasonable Musical, recording grounds).

Fhg hits the nail on the head here. Some of our BAL reviewers these days live in such an ivory tower, built principally of bricks of their own superiority, that they fail to appreciate that if there are available versions which are generally regarded as absolute classics, like Stoky and Hamlet, then it is sheer arrogance not to mention them, as FHG says, even if it is to dismiss them with an explanation as to why. Ditto with Maazel and the VPO in this work.

It happens too often - like the Rach 2nd Symphony BAL about which I fumed a while back!

[Sir Velo]

Fair points all, but I think BAL has a duty to choose recordings in superior sound. Recordings in mono, or early stereo, while an ideal supplement should rarely be the main recommendation except where they are streets ahead of any competition qua performances.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This does make sense. I recall the BaL review of Tchaikovsky's Queen of Spades. The choice was an appallingly recorded 1946 Soviet recording. It may have been a good performance, but it was difficult to appreciate without using ear trumpets and lots of imagination...

[vinteuil]

... I wd have thought the vulgar flamboyance of Mr Stokowski well suited to the vulgar flamboyance of Tchaikovsky.

Mind you, Mr Bernstein ain't short of vulgar flamboyance neither..

[ostuni]

I take your points, fhg & LW: the Stokowski certainly seems to have a legendary status and, since it's still available, it ought to have had at least a mention. I had a listen to some of the other transfers of the Stokowski on Spotify just now: one (Menuetto Classics's 111 Tchaikovsky masterpieces - sic) has much better sound than my dell'Arte CD that I listened to last night. So I've downloaded the Menuetto (just one of the 111, 79p), and will have another listen later - with apologies to Stoki fans for dismissing the recording on the basis of a duff transfer... (Those ff tutti chords still distort on every transfer I've heard, though)

Thanks to LW's and others' enthusiasm, I shelled out another 69p on the Maazel (the Decca version is album-only, but the 'Dark Side of Tchaikovsky' album (sic, again) has it separately available). For a recording only 7 years later than Stokowski (1958, 1965), the sound is astonishingly vivid, though with rather exaggerated stereo. The performance is very 'in your face'... I had no idea the VPO brass had it in them to play that crudely! Like SW, I think I'm a bit of a score pedant, so I didn't much like Maazel's use of the piccolo where Tchaik doesn't ask for it. But it's undeniably exciting. At present, the Bernstein IsraelPO is the one I'd return to.

[amateur51]

... I wd have thought the vulgar flamboyance of Mr Stokowski well suited to the vulgar flamboyance of Tchaikovsky.

Mind you, Mr Bernstein ain't short of vulgar flamboyance neither..

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Like SW, I think I'm a bit of a score pedant, so I didn't much like Maazel's use of the piccolo where Tchaik doesn't ask for it.

I hadn't realised that. Must give it another spin.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

...have done that, but the piccolo was only boosting the flute as it does anyway, later in the score. No harm done.

As for the "crude" VPO brass, I didn't detect that. It was just exciting and following the composer's dynamics. Honestly, it's a mid-romantic orchestral sound, with fffff dropping to pp very rapidly. It isn't a harpsichord.

What you you make of Gergiev's VPO sound? I find it quite brutal.

[BBMmk2]

Try Maazel, that will knock your socks off - and the 'filler' is his recording of Manfred (or vice-versa) - either way a cracking Decca CD

Ah, yes, Ive heard good rep-orts about the Maazel Decca cycle!

[ostuni]

...have done that, but the piccolo was only boosting the flute as it does anyway, later in the score. No harm done.

As for the "crude" VPO brass, I didn't detect that. It was just exciting and following the composer's dynamics. Honestly, it's a mid-romantic orchestral sound, with fffff dropping to pp very rapidly. It isn't a harpsichord.

What you you make of Gergiev's VPO sound? I find it quite brutal.

I haven't heard Gergiev yet, though he certainly does go in for brutality. We'll have to agree to differ on the piccolo front: you hear no harm, I hear tasteless intrusion (anyone curious about what I mean could listen to the build-up before the stopped horn passage, 3:25 - 3:35; plenty of later examples.

And 'undeniably exciting' was my verdict. You don't need to tell me about romantic orchestral dynamics - I thoroughly enjoy the genre - and I spend some of my time playing trombone in orchestras, so I'm not allergic to the sound... But, for my tastes, the trombone (and sometimes trumpet) sound here is crude, and dominates the balance way more than in Bernstein's or Stokowski's versions.

[gradus]

It seemed a bit perverse of the reviewer to ignore Stokowski's version given that it is coupled with the celebrated blockbuster performance of Francesca da Rimini. Had he never heard of the recording, is he very young and inexperienced?

[Petrushka]

It seemed a bit perverse of the reviewer to ignore Stokowski's version given that it is coupled with the celebrated blockbuster performance of Francesca da Rimini. Had he never heard of the recording, is he very young and inexperienced?

Neither young nor inexperienced. Short biography of Stephen Walsh here: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/music/conta...es/walshs.html

His Stravinsky books are excellent.