BaL 5.01.13 - Sibelius: Symphony no. 2 in D

[PJPJ]

........ recorded sound was (IIRC) restricted to a single comment on the Timpani balance in the Collins recording.

.. which I rather like, as I do in the third movement of the 1st Symphony.

[PJPJ]

....Correct me if I am wrong, bit her choice, the LPO/Davies version

Well, it's Davis, and the LSO.........

[Barbirollians]

She did discuss it earlier in a way that suggested it was going to be her first choice . FHGL - best performance may have been her concern and rightly so but I did not hear any analysis from her of why she whittled the recordings down .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I did not hear any analysis from her of why she whittled the recordings down .

No, nor I: and it was something of a jolt when she finally rejected Szell (which, quite rightly, she'd praised to the rafters earlier) because "it might just be too accurate" (or some such). Not entirely sure why Vanska was ejected, either. Ho-hum: the Davis struck me as an excellent version, but, from the excerpts we heard, it would be Szell to which I would've given the prize.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It makes me groan when reviewers ram subjective views down our ears, tell us what to listen for, and spend time on an extra drum stroke, but refuse to let us hear why she thought it so wrong?

Perhaps your irritation led to your missing her explanation that the extra drum stroke isn't in Sibelius' score but was an idea to make the work sound "better" introduced by Koussevitsky.

Correct me if I am wrong, bit her choice, the LPO/Davies version was only introduced at the very end.

As you request, raf; the LSO/Davis featured from her discussion of the First movement.

[verismissimo]

I'm sure we'd all lead happier lives if we just took BAL for what it is. One person's choice, not only of winner, but also of illustrated passages and thoughts about the work and the recordings used.

I always enjoy it, just for the chance to hear different performances and performance practices in close juxtaposition. To be honest, I don't really care what gets chosen as best in class. Why on earth would his/her choice be the same as mine, even if I had the opportunity to do some concentrated com[parisons over several weeks, which I don't.

For me, the revelation this morning, as I mentioned previously, was Kajanus (in the first-ever recording of the work) taking the opening of the first movement at about twice the speed of anything I've heard before.

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

I had never heard of her, and googling returned a youngish looking woman who is (a) the music critic of the Guardian, a paper I rarely buy.

Heaven forfend that a music critic should be young! Erica Jeal, in addition to being one of the Guardian's music critics, is also deputy editor of Opera magazine.

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

I'm sure we'd all lead happier lives if we just took BAL for what it is. One person's choice, not only of winner, but also of illustrated passages and thoughts about the work and the recordings used.

I always enjoy it, just for the chance to hear different performances and performance practices in close juxtaposition. To be honest, I don't really care what gets chosen as best in class. Why on earth would his/her choice be the same as mine, even if I had the opportunity to do some concentrated com[parisons over several weeks, which I don't.

Spot on.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I'm sure we'd all lead happier lives if we just took BAL for what it is. One person's choice, not only of winner, but also of illustrated passages and thoughts about the work and the recordings used.

I always enjoy it, just for the chance to hear different performances and performance practices in close juxtaposition. To be honest, I don't really care what gets chosen as best in class. Why on earth would his/her choice be the same as mine, even if I had the opportunity to do some concentrated com[parisons over several weeks, which I don't.

For me, the revelation this morning, as I mentioned previously, was Kajanus (in the first-ever recording of the work) taking the opening of the first movement at about twice the speed of anything I've heard before.

verismissimo: very much agree with your overall approach - I was just winding myself up to attempt a justification of the reviewer's approach and the essential invalidity of many boarders' criticisms but you've made the point. Hell's bells, if there's no concensus on the best version of Sib 2, is it likely there'll ever be one best way of doing a BaL on this or any other work? For my money today's reviewer played plenty of excerpts, and made it tolerably clear the point she thought each made. It's inevitable that people will disagree with her conclusions, and even her methodology but that doesn't make it WRONG!!! Is it not the case anyway that we older collectors inevitably will have got more out of BaLs donkey's years ago when our knowledge of the work was less and the number of versions on shops' and our own shelves so much smaller? Keep an open mind guys - take pleasure where you can find it, or operate the off switch regretfully - not condemningly - when you have to!

I too found the Kajanus excerpt most exciting. That's not to say I'll be rushing to buy the recording, but the point she made before playing it was that Sibelius in general found that contemporary conductors, presumably not long after the work was published, played the 1st mov't too slow. It would have been even more interesting if he'd said whether Kajanus was or wasn't better than the norm - if he wanted it still faster then we really have got our ideas completely wrong! I shall have a look in Tawaststjerna to see if any more light emerges. Does any other boreder know S's views of K's performances/ recording of the 2nd?

[amateur51]

I'm sure we'd all lead happier lives if we just took BAL for what it is. One person's choice, not only of winner, but also of illustrated passages and thoughts about the work and the recordings used.

I always enjoy it, just for the chance to hear different performances and performance practices in close juxtaposition. To be honest, I don't really care what gets chosen as best in class. Why on earth would his/her choice be the same as mine, even if I had the opportunity to do some concentrated com[parisons over several weeks, which I don't.

For me, the revelation this morning, as I mentioned previously, was Kajanus (in the first-ever recording of the work) taking the opening of the first movement at about twice the speed of anything I've heard before.

[BBMmk2]

I will have to listen to this on iplayer, but Vanska and ashkenazy not in the running? I had the Colin Davis set on vynl but i think that my present ones are really good performances. Inciodentally, i never knew that Szell conducted or even recorded them?

[PJPJ]

There are two Szell recordings of the 2nd

1. Studio - Concertgebouw
2. Live in Tokyo - Cleveland

Also released were live recordings of Nos 3, 4 and 7 from various dates.....

http://fischer.hosting.paran.com/music/Szell/discography-szell-2.htm#Sibelius

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I will have to listen to this on iplayer, but Vanska and ashkenazy not in the running?

Vanska featured strongly until the final fences (I can't recall why no further); Ashkenasy I don't recall even reaching the starting gates!

I had the Colin Davis set on vynl

Ah, that would be his first cycle with the Bostonians on Phillips: the chosen one today was the LSOLive CD (made over a quarter of a century later).

Inciodentally, i never knew that Szell conducted or even recorded them?

Szell recorded the work twice, Bbm; the one that almost won today was with the Concertgebouw - and it really impressed me, probably more than any of the others.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm sure we'd all lead happier lives if we just took BAL for what it is. One person's choice, not only of winner, but also of illustrated passages and thoughts about the work and the recordings used.

Where's the fun in that?!

[LeMartinPecheur]

I too found the Kajanus excerpt most exciting. That's not to say I'll be rushing to buy the recording, but the point she made before playing it was that Sibelius in general found that contemporary conductors, presumably not long after the work was published, played the 1st mov't too slow. It would have been even more interesting if he'd said whether Kajanus was or wasn't better than the norm - if he wanted it still faster then we really have got our ideas completely wrong! I shall have a look in Tawaststjerna to see if any more light emerges. Does any other boreder know S's views of K's performances/ recording of the 2nd?

Have checked Tawaststjerna; no joy on this Kajanus recording. Unfortunately T's 3rd volume, covering the years 1914-57 when the earliest symphony-recordings were made, is massively more compressed than the first two (1865-1904 and 1904-14), even in its treatment of individual works. So corrrespondence about recordings of earlier works sadly doesn't get much space. Judging by the interest S took in recordings till very late in his life I suspect there will be comments somewhere though.