BaL 5.01.13 - Sibelius: Symphony no. 2 in D

[aeolium]

My point is that there is a real (not "over-fussy") difference between somebody's disliking Davis' third recording of the Sibelius second Symphony and their blanket dismissal of Davis' mastery of Sibelius.

But I don't think there was a "blanket dismissal" at all in what HS wrote. He claimed that in his opinion Sibelius was not Davis' metier (or forte, strong point), by implication comparing this with his performance of Mozart and Berlioz. To me the opinion suggested that HS did not think Davis was at his best in performances of Sibelius, did not get to the essence of the composer. Why shouldn't that be an allowable opinion on this board? What would you have rather had HS say: "Davis is undoubtedly a master in Sibelius but I don't really care for his interpretations"? That doesn't sound convincing to me.

This board is about people's opinions. I'd rather see them expressed than not and I don't like to see people slapped down for simply expressing an opinion that doesn't contravene board rules.

[Nick Armstrong]

What a great half-hour that was, reading through the above!

Not going to wade into the Davis debate, save that I've never found he performs No 5 convincingly, whereas only he seems to hold the key to No 3 for me... Horses for courses, I guess.

As regards the BAL on Sibelius 2, as ever (whoever is presenting) I welcomed the chance to hear a variety of approaches in the extracts played in the programme... although I agree with some posters above, it was not the most illuminating of commentaries (and as someone says one only has to listen to a Plaistow BAL to gather what can be added by perceptive analysis and comparison... but then again, he's been doing it for donkey's years)...

I was most impressed with the extracts from Szell/Concertgebouw, Gibson/RSNO and Collins... the latter, a revelation. What a recording! (I quite liked hearing about the origin of 'ffrr'). Irrespective of Ms Jeal's conclusions, they're the ones I shall seek out.

It is a pity that the format does not allow a wider 'field' of runners and riders. BAL always sends me back to my shelves, when it's about a work I know, to see what I've accumulated over the years. For example, as I type, I'm listening to Sibelius 2 from the Blomstedt/San Francisco set which I'd forgotten I had - sounds terrific to me, but I love the way that team was recorded by Decca... just waiting to see if the peroration sends my flying from the sofa...

.. Well still here, but I can't see how it's in any way inferior to the Davis. And a DAMN sight more agreeably recorded.

Just acquired Szell/Concertgebouw...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But I don't think there was a "blanket dismissal" at all in what HS wrote. He claimed that in his opinion Sibelius was not Davis' metier (or forte, strong point), by implication comparing this with his performance of Mozart and Berlioz. To me the opinion suggested that HS did not think Davis was at his best in performances of Sibelius, did not get to the essence of the composer.

What, then, would you call a "blanket dismissal of Davis' mastery of Sibelius"?

Why shouldn't that be an allowable opinion on this board? What would you have rather had HS say: "Davis is undoubtedly a master in Sibelius but I don't really care for his interpretations"? That doesn't sound convincing to me.

And yet you find the claim that "Sibelius isn't Davis' metier" to be "convincing"?! The Finnish Government awarded Davis "Commander, Order of the Lion" because they liked his Berlioz? The Boston Symphony Orchestra invited Davis to record their first ever Sibelius cycle because they thought the Music wasn't really his "strong point"? You're "convinced" by this, aeolie?

This board is about people's opinions. I'd rather see them expressed than not and I don't like to see people slapped down for simply expressing an opinion that doesn't contravene board rules.

Then what are you doing in post #168?

[Hornspieler]

What, then, would you call a "blanket dismissal of Davis' mastery of Sibelius"?


And yet you find the claim that "Sibelius isn't Davis' metier" to be "convincing"?! The Finnish Government awarded Davis "Commander, Order of the Lion" because they liked his Berlioz? The Boston Symphony Orchestra invited Davis to record their first ever Sibelius cycle because they thought the Music wasn't really his "strong point"? You're "convinced" by this, aeolie?


Then what are you doing in post #168?

Please, please Please!

If you will all stop this pointless and tetchy quarelling, I will delete my "offensive" post and perhaps we may all return to the subject of this thread.

HS

[Barbirollians]

As we only got one short , albeit marvellous excerpt, of the RPO/Barbirolli I am not surprised it did not make your list Caliban !

[Nick Armstrong]

As we only got one short , albeit marvellous excerpt, of the RPO/Barbirolli I am not surprised it did not make your list Caliban !

I must listen again to that, Babs I'm going to investigate on amazon anyway, as I share your enthusiasm for Sir John...

[Alison]

Caliban raises an interesting point.

Is it more pleasurable to take in these threads day be day, even hour by hour, or to wait

for an omnibus catch up the following weekend ?

Stay calm, Mr Hormspieler. As the old saying goes,

to the world you are one

to us you are the world.

[Nick Armstrong]

Caliban raises an interesting point.

Is it more pleasurable to take in these threads day be day, even hour by hour, or to wait for an omnibus catch up the following weekend ?

I would have thought the latter should ideally be the exception, as it will often preclude entering into an ongoing debate... But sometimes it's fun when fear of a 'spoiler' makes it preferable!

[BBMmk2]

I must listen again to that, Babs I'm going to investigate on amazon anyway, as I share your enthusiasm for Sir John...

I have the EMI set of Sir John's Sibelius! Must investigate!again!

[amateur51]

Please, please Please!

If you will all stop this pointless and tetchy quarelling, I will delete my "offensive" post and perhaps we may all return to the subject of this thread.

HS

While I understand your embarrassment HS, I don't think it helps to withdraw your post - what's done is done - nor does describing a subsequent conversation as "pointless and tetchy quarelling"

Healey's Law of Holes applies

[Bryn]

Careful Bbm, there are at least two Berglund Sibelius symphony cycles, plus several recordings of individual symphonies. The survey just re-issued by EMI (the Bournemouth recordings) is probably the one you are considering. Last night I listened to a recorded live performance of the Fourth which he gave with the RCO. Magnificent!

Don't forget the tone poems on EMI.

The Berglund/Bournemouth symphonies set arrived in the post this morning. All the symphonies and all but the Karelia and KCII 'fill-up' extracts are in new transfers. Highly recommended, though the price has gone up somewhat since I 'pre-ordered' it from hmv.com for £9.00 including p&p.

[Barbirollians]

The Berglund/Bournemouth symphonies set arrived in the post this morning. All the symphonies and all but the Karelia and KCII 'fill-up' extracts are in new transfers. Highly recommended, though the price has gone up somewhat since I 'pre-ordered' it from hmv.com for £9.00 including p&p.

No Kullervo though I understood ?

[Bryn]

No Kullervo though I understood ?

No, you have to find a copy of the Gemini issue for that. Not too difficult. It can be found on amazon.co.uk, new, for £7.00 including UK p&p at the moment. The fill-up are of the earlier transfers and duplicate some of what is in the new release. You do get MS. Haendel playing the Serenades 1 & 2 in the Gemini pairing though.

By the way, is anyone here (IGI for instance) familiar with Berglund's COE recordings of the symphonies? I have seen rather mixed, and generally somewhat negative, reviews of that set, but at £7.49 for the mp3 download via amazon.co.uk the set does seem worth investigating as a supplement to the Bournemouth and Helsinki surveys.

[amateur51]

The Berglund/Bournemouth symphonies set arrived in the post this morning. All the symphonies and all but the Karelia and KCII 'fill-up' extracts are in new transfers. Highly recommended, though the price has gone up somewhat since I 'pre-ordered' it from hmv.com for £9.00 including p&p.

Sainsbury's still matching that, though they say it may take up to 10 days

http://www.sainsburysentertainment.co.uk/en/Music/CD/Jean-Sibelius/Symphonies-Bournemouth-So-Berglund/product.html?product=E11166895

[Barbirollians]

I listened to the podcast of this BAl again this afternoon and I am still not all that impressed . The RPO/Barbirolli -was jettisoned because " just occasionally his pacing slips " .

That is simply sloppy . How does it slip ? Is he too slow or too fast , inappropriate accelerations or decelerations?

How does this affect the performance as a whole ? Why does it justify it being thrown out so early and never mentioned again ?