BaL 29.12.12 - Beethoven's Missa Solemnis

[ARBurton]

Well I`ve now caught up with this programme, what a disappointment. Heaps of recordings missed out - Beecham/1937, Bernstein, Kittel, 2 from Erich Kleiber, Koussevitsky, Krauss, Masur, Mitropoulos, Sawallisch, Schuricht, Walter, and Zinman. I thought BAL used to be a survey of the available recordings, rather than just a comparison of "selected" recordings.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I thought BAL used to be a survey of the available recordings, rather than just a comparison of "selected" recordings.

I think you're right that this was how it "used to be", ARB, but with the Mass* of available recordings nowadays, there wouldn't be time even to play short extracts if all these were illustrated. For a 3/4-hour programme, reviewers of works with so many recordings have had to narrow their selection down before they start work on their scripts. Sadly, this inevitably means that some excellent recordings have to be omitted simply because the reviewer just doesn't think they're as good as the ones s/he does include on the shortlist. One of the flaws in a format that has been overtaken by changes in marketing since the 1960s when it was first devised.

[Thropplenoggin]

I think you're right that this was how it "used to be", ARB, but with the Mass* of available recordings nowadays, there wouldn't be time even to play short extracts if all these were illustrated. For a 3/4-hour programme, reviewers of works with so many recordings have had to narrow their selection down before they start work on their scripts. Sadly, this inevitably means that some excellent recordings have to be omitted simply because the reviewer just doesn't think they're as good as the ones s/he does include on the shortlist. One of the flaws in a format that has been overtaken by changes in marketing since the 1960s when it was first devised.

It makes one wish for a dedicated programme to this type of survey, like the French radio show 'Le Jardin des Critiques', ideally 1hr 30mins or better yet, 2 hours. This would allow the work to be set in a historical context as well as covering more available works. Alternatively, there is the 'blind listening' approach, although surely one would be able to spot the historical recordings in such a survey.

[amateur51]

It makes one wish for a dedicated programme to this type of survey, like the French radio show 'Le Jardin des Critiques', ideally 1hr 30mins or better yet, 2 hours. This would allow the work to be set in a historical context as well as covering more available works. Alternatively, there is the 'blind listening' approach, although surely one would be able to spot the historical recordings in such a survey.

I quite agree Throppers, and these variations have been mooted berfore.Would it matter really if you could 'spot' an historical recording if you liked/disliked what you heard in musical terms?

I guess that a programme as descibed lasting 1.5-2 hours might be antithetical to Radio Three's current populist thrust - but it would be a real treat, I think

[Thropplenoggin]

I quite agree Throppers, and these variations have been mooted berfore.Would it matter really if you could 'spot' an historical recording if you liked/disliked what you heard in musical terms?

I guess that a programme as descibed lasting 1.5-2 hours might be antithetical to Radio Three's current populist thrust - but it would be a real treat, I think

Therein lies the rub. Why have 2 hours of in-depth musical critique when you can have all those Tweets and emails and brainteasers being read out

I think I feel a petition coming on

[amateur51]

Therein lies the rub. Why have 2 hours of in-depth musical critique when you can have all those Tweets and emails and brainteasers being read out

I think I feel a petition coming on

I think it would be an ideal programme for a Sunday afternoon, as the lunch slips down the red way

[Barbirollians]

The Klemperer is very cheap and I have succumbed .

[Beef Oven]

For me, the Missa Solemnis that tops them all is - The Hanover Band, Oslo Cathedral Choir, Roy Goodman (solo violin), Terje Kvam.

Had this recording for nearly 15 years and I have never felt the need to add another to my collection.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

For me, the Missa Solemnis that tops them all is - The Hanover Band, Oslo Cathedral Choir, Roy Goodman (solo violin), Terje Kvam.
Had this recording for nearly 15 years and I have never felt the need to add another to my collection.

This was generally well reviewed on Saturday, but seemed to be discarded on the grounds (unless I missed the point) that the conductor wasn't famous enough! I was certainly impressed with what I heard of it.

[Bryn]

This was generally well reviewed on Saturday, but seemed to be discarded on the grounds (unless I missed the point) that the conductor wasn't famous enough! I was certainly impressed with what I heard of it.

I think you did mishear. I also much admire the Kvam. Indeed I very quickly replaced mine when the original CD I had was accidentally damaged. I will check the iPlayer for the actual reason given for dismissing it.

[Ah, the reasons given were the "inexperienced soloists" and "technical problems of balancing chorus and orchestra". Not good enough reasons to reject it, to my ears.]

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thanks, Bryn; I "remembered" JD had said something to the effect that Kvam wasn't the first name people would rush to for a recording of the Missa Solemnis and got muddled.

[Peter Katin]

So Giulini is the winner in today's programme. I was rather impressed by the Klemperer too, even though I don't normally go for this conductor's Beethoven.

I agree about Giulini - but I'm somewhat side-tracked by Toscanini. But it's hardly a work that one hears every day, so it might be good to take the advice to get both and allow for long periods of mental digestion.

[Beef Oven]

This was generally well reviewed on Saturday, but seemed to be discarded on the grounds (unless I missed the point) that the conductor wasn't famous enough! I was certainly impressed with what I heard of it.

I only recently clicked on this thread and did not know that this recording had already been discussed. I expect the usual suspects (Klemperer, Giulini et al) will win out for, dare I say it, reasons that are not capable of being falsified


.

[Tony Halstead]

I think you did mishear. I also much admire the Kvam. Indeed I very quickly replaced mine when the original CD I had was accidentally damaged. I will check the iPlayer for the actual reason given for dismissing it.

[Ah, the reasons given were the "inexperienced soloists" and "technical problems of balancing chorus and orchestra". Not good enough reasons to reject it, to my ears.]

I have an 'off-air' recording ( sadly on cassette only but now about to be transferred to CD) of the live performance of the Missa Solemnis, in Oslo Cathedral, that preceded the Nimbus recording, with the same personnel.
The Norwegian radio engineering is sonically clearer and rather superior to that of the rather cavernous Birmingham University hall on the Nimbus CD, IMV, and the whole performance has got not only more 'sparkle, but also more profundity, albeit with a few inevitable clinkers and some audience noise.
I'd be happy to send a CD of this to any m-boarders simply for the P & P cost if you send me a PM.

[BBMmk2]

It's rather good that the Klemperer has become a cheapey, is quite amazuing. Is it still c/w LvB's Choral Fantasia?