BaL 22.01.11 - Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Oops, yes. It arrived yesterday, but I've yet to hear either disc.

[LaurieWatt]

Sorry to bore everyone to death with my pet obsession, but I was looking through the Wikipedia page on this work and note that there are still may errors in the so-called comprehensive list of recordings. So I thought I'd have a go at making my own list - from the earliest pre-electric recording to the latest Blu-ray release:


1981
London Philharmonic Orchestra; Andrew Davis (date according to Wikipedia)

1982
BBC Symphony Orchestra; Norman Del Mar

I am sure that, at least, Eine Alpensifonie will forgive me visiting this thread as a complete Johnny-come-lately, months after the last contribution. I remember seeing it and thought I had contributed but I can't find it, and, so, here I am! I have excised most of the extra recordings from EA's quoted corrected list except two particular favourites of mine concerning which I was surprised to see no comment at all.

The LPO/Andrew Davis one on Sony Classics is very well played and recorded, and the Pritchard/BBCSO live recording, like his amazing Shostakovich 11th Symphony, from the RFH on 12 April 1985, with the same forces, demonstrating what an under-rated force Polly was to be reckoned with!

I fear that I cannot compete with the collections of this work that some of you have but my ten recordings comprise, in addition to the two above, Strauss's own from 1941; the amazing BBC Welsh Symphony Orchestra - as it was called then - performance with Mariss Jansons on BBC Music Magazine; then my complete favourite, which is with the SNO under Jarvi - also one of Ralph Couzens favourite of all Chandos's orchestral recordings, apparently; Haitink's fine LSO Live performance badly let down by a flat two dimensional recording; Wit - ok; Thielemann/VPO - I love it, aren't those two bass trombones fabulous (as in the Jarvi one as well)! Zinman - OK and, lastly, a very exciting Shipway!!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

In my ongoing review of every version I can obtain, I've completed the Andrew Davis one:

London Philharmonic Orchestra; Andrew Davis – 53 minutes, 30 seconds
By 1981, many recording companies had switched to digital technology, but Davis’s Alpine Symphony was a late adherent to the older but still excellent tried and trusted analogue system. Having said that, the audio engineers appear to have been using an excessive number of microphones. Unsubtle spotlighting of instruments is apparent from the beginning; even the contra-bassoon can be heard playing its lowest note above the rest of the orchestra very early on, and solo violins are picked out artificially. Some may appreciate being able to hear more inner detail than is normal, but there are other better recordings that achieve the same effect without zooming in on whatever the sound engineer wants us to notice.
A slow, steady start, which suggests the opening of Das Rheingold, is followed by a relaxed “sunrise”. It is clear from the outset that this is to be a relaxed reading. Even the ”ascent” lacks energy, though the clarity of sound compensates by giving a greater sense of sparkle. Then at 4 bars before figure 18, Davis inserts an unmarked rallentando, perhaps in preparation for the off-stage band’s entry. This turns out to be something of an expensive flop, being very slow and ponderous.
As might be expected on a spotlit recording, the zooming effect (on the appearance of the string quartet in the “forest” section) is quite extreme. After an uneventful imaginary journey “wandering by the stream”, the waterfall sequence is marred by some momentarily scrappy playing by the brass.
Spotlighting becomes an issue once again in the “flowery meadows” section, as the cello melody becomes overwhelmed by woodwind decoration. Even Decca Phase Four could be more subtle than this. In contrast, the “mountain pasture” music is very carefully balanced, with discrete cowbells, and for a while the engineers seem to be on their best behaviour. A lack of real drama is a possible shortcoming of the “lost in thicket” section, and this continues in the slow, heavy “glacier” music. Similarly, the “precarious moments” sound very safe indeed! It is particularly well articulated, in the manner of a Klemperer, but although this is reflective music, it needs greater momentum. Similarly, the “summit music tries to be expansive, but it lacks real passion and power, despite superb orchestral playing.
Spotlighting of instruments within the “vision” section is arguably overdone, and this is particularly noticeable at figure 90, where the oboe countermelody becomes a fully blown solo, accompanied by the “real” melodic line.
Subsequent sections are very slow indeed, but this adds nothing to the sense of mystery, except perhaps in the Elegy. However, the “calm before the storm” almost grinds to a halt in places. In contrast, the thunderstorm itself is quite exciting, though not exceptionally so and for a spotlit recording, both the wind and thunder machines are surprisingly recessed. Following a slow and slightly ponderous “sunset”, the “epilogue” is extremely slow (7 minutes, 6 seconds) and verges on becoming tedious rather than moving. It may appeal to some listeners, but it is very much in the mould of “Nimrod” in Bernstein’s recording of Elgar’s Enigma Variations.
In short, Davis’s recording cannot be a general recommendation.

The Pritchard one is, I believe, conducted by Norman Del Mar, with John Pritchard conducting Don Juan. There may be a Pritchard recording, and if there is, then please let me know.
Del Mar's was a Proms performance, which I attended, and it was quite brilliant. The organ was over-dominant in the thunderstorm, but the recording has somehow overcome this.

[LaurieWatt]

In my ongoing review of every version I can obtain, I've completed the Andrew Davis one:



The Pritchard one is, I believe, conducted by Norman Del Mar, with John Pritchard conducting Don Juan. There may be a Pritchard recording, and if there is, then please let me know.
Del Mar's was a Proms performance, which I attended, and it was quite brilliant. The organ was over-dominant in the thunderstorm, but the recording has somehow overcome this.

How careless of me! You are absolutely right, I had not played the CD for ages and reading the Alpine Symphony thread reminded me of it - incorrectly as you point out. I must go back to the Davis and see whether I still like it as much!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Please don't let me put you off the Davis! It's only a personal view, and no more valid than yours or anyone else's.

[LaurieWatt]

Please don't let me put you off the Davis! It's only a personal view, and no more valid than yours or anyone else's.

Hello, again, Alpensinfonie; I have finally got round to listening again to the Davis/LPO and comparing bits with my two favourites by Jarvi and Thielemann. I think I must have a re-mastered version (Sony Classics) because I normally hate closely spotlit recordings and although I suspect the LPO were quite closely miked in the studio, in the end product there is very little actual spotlighting of instruments, and the string quartet that you refer to as being very closely recorded simply isn't. I agree that the recording could be clearer but the orchestral perspectives are pretty good. Jarvi's very natural recording with the Scottish National Orchestra, as it was then called, has the quartet just as prominent. Curiously, Thielemann's live recording with the VPO from the Musikverein, which is more 'in your face' generally than Davis or Jarvi has a more reticent, arguably too much so, for a recording, string quartet in that passage!

However, what prompts me to write most, is your description of the off-stage horns as an 'expensive flop'. I would go further and call them a 'cheapskate' flop which is even ruder because it sounds to me as though the orchestra have used a cheat which is occasionally employed with this work and halved the number of off-stage horns and had six on-stage replacing six extras off-stage and playing with their mutes in! As a horn player I find this completely outrageous and would be intrigued to hear what our own Waldhorn and Hornspieler think of that!

I would not dream of taking issue with you on the performance which I quite like although it is, as you say, quite indulgent with some of its speeds. It is not one of my favourites but I am glad to have given it another airing!

[BBMmk2]

With all these technologies we have now, I am surprised they dont overdubb or whatever its called?

[Hornspieler]

Hello, again, Alpensinfonie; I have finally got round to listening again to the Davis/LPO and comparing bits with my two favourites by Jarvi and Thielemann. I think I must have a re-mastered version (Sony Classics) because I normally hate closely spotlit recordings and although I suspect the LPO were quite closely miked in the studio, in the end product there is very little actual spotlighting of instruments, and the string quartet that you refer to as being very closely recorded simply isn't. I agree that the recording could be clearer but the orchestral perspectives are pretty good. Jarvi's very natural recording with the Scottish National Orchestra, as it was then called, has the quartet just as prominent. Curiously, Thielemann's live recording with the VPO from the Musikverein, which is more 'in your face' generally than Davis or Jarvi has a more reticent, arguably too much so, for a recording, string quartet in that passage!

However, what prompts me to write most, is your description of the off-stage horns as an 'expensive flop'. I would go further and call them a 'cheapskate' flop which is even ruder because it sounds to me as though the orchestra have used a cheat which is occasionally employed with this work and halved the number of off-stage horns and had six on-stage replacing six extras off-stage and playing with their mutes in! As a horn player I find this completely outrageous and would be intrigued to hear what our own Waldhorn and Hornspieler think of that!

I would not dream of taking issue with you on the performance which I quite like although it is, as you say, quite indulgent with some of its speeds. It is not one of my favourites but I am glad to have given it another airing!

I remember playing in an offstage horn section with the LPO in the early 1950s. Was it on that particulay occasion? (Royal Festival Hall but I don't remember who was the conductor).

That work, like the second symphony of Mahler is always going to present difficulties. Is there enough room to play? How is the intonation compared with what is happening on the stage? (Doppler effect?) Is some junior conductor with a small tv screen trying to keep with his Maestro?

In the case of Mahler's second, the notion that 4 or more horns can hit a top C in unison without somebody splitting it wide open is very fanciful. If those same players are recruited from the local music college or whatever is a recipe for disaster. What does Waldhorn think?

I'm off to watch some cricket.

HS

[Petrushka]

With all these technologies we have now, I am surprised they dont overdubb or whatever its called?

In recording I'd feel sure that such 'cheating' does take place. Off topic, but listening to Janacek's Sinfonietta the other day on CD, I did think there might have been three trumpets employed and recorded either closer or dubbed or whatever the technical phrase might be. Mahler 2, Alpensinfonie and Tristan Act 2 Prelude (surely Strauss' inspiration?) for the horns represent a more complex situation.

I wonder if Waldhorn has played in a recording of the Strauss and can confirm what actually took place without breaking the Official Secrets Act?

[BBMmk2]

Yes, some 'insider' information?

[Flay]

(Doppler effect?)

That would only happen if the horn section was running to the bar at the time!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

However, what prompts me to write most, is your description of the off-stage horns as an 'expensive flop'. I would go further and call them a 'cheapskate' flop which is even ruder because it sounds to me as though the orchestra have used a cheat which is occasionally employed with this work and halved the number of off-stage horns and had six on-stage replacing six extras off-stage and playing with their mutes in! As a horn player I find this completely outrageous and would be intrigued to hear what our own Waldhorn and Hornspieler think of that!

When Luisi and the Dresden Staatskapelle performed it at the Proms, they didn't use any offstage band at all, using mutes instead. Very disappointing. However, by whatever method, they certainly did have the offstage effect on their recording.

[pastoralguy]

When Luisi and the Dresden Staatskapelle performed it at the Proms, they didn't use any offstage band at all, using mutes instead. Very disappointing. However, by whatever method, they certainly did have the offstage effect on their recording.

We heard them play the work at the Edinburgh Festival except that there was nothing mentioned about the alternative ending employed. The work came to a very flat end with the solo violin and horn being denied their final moment of
ecstasy.

[Petrushka]

We heard them play the work at the Edinburgh Festival except that there was nothing mentioned about the alternative ending employed. The work came to a very flat end with the solo violin and horn being denied their final moment of
ecstasy.

Was it Ein Heldenleben being performed thst night, PG?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I see there's a new Decca version to import, with Daniel Harding and the Saito Kinen Orchestra.

Frau A. thinks I only have 11 versions.