BaL 26.05.12/25.02.23 - Messiaen: Turangalila Symphony

[CallMePaul]

Indeed. Hardly worth me bothering to say what won last time given that it's obvious from earlier in the thread but here we go anyway:

Nick Morgan May 02: Tortelier
Jeremy Thurlow May 12: Nagano

The work was also covered by Roger Nichols in Jan 88 but I'm afraid I don't know which recording he chose.

I am surprised that this work has been covered so often - I have vague memories of the 2012 BAL. There are many other works by Messiaen that deserve a survey: -
Et Expecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum (18 versions according to Presto)
Catalogue d'Oiseaux (14 versions)
L'Ascension (27 organ and 48 orchestral versions)
Visions de l'Amen (28 versions)

to name but a few. Turangalila would certainly not be my suggestion as an introduction to his work for those new to Messiaen. I would suggest Vingt Regards or l'Ascension as a first port of call for newbies. The first of these has been covered but there is plenty of scope for BAL producers to consider!

[Bryn]

. . . (I haven't heard his Turangalila).

Very prominent Ondes. Messiaen's subtle use of the instrument to colour the strings etc. seems to have eluded Salonen.

[Master Jacques]

Very prominent Ondes ...

These days you can have an operation on the NHS to rectify that. Probably a long waiting list, though!

[ostuni]

Since Turangalila's last appearance on BaL, there have been a number of new recordings, two of which strike me as really excellent. Bergen SO/Mena, with Steven Osborne (Hyperion), and NTO-Mannheim/Soddy, with Tamara Stefanovich (Oehms). Both well worth a listen - and, in a comparative listening exercise which I did about 18 months ago, both held their own against the best of older recordings (Previn, Rattle, Salonen, Chailly, Nagano).

[RichardB]

I think there was something about the Mena recording that I didn't like, but I can't remember what it was now. This morning though I listened to the Nagano and, well, it seems to get everything right as far as I'm concerned. I was reminded that some of the more complex moments in the Ozawa recording did sound a bit confused, in comparison with more recent recordings.

[Joseph K]

Just gathered the wherewithal to put the remaining two movements on the LSO/Previn on (these appear on the second disk). The third Turangalila is really amazing. I intend to listen to the Cambreling and Nagano soon.

[Bryn]

I think there was something about the Mena recording that I didn't like, but I can't remember what it was now. This morning though I listened to the Nagano and, well, it seems to get everything right as far as I'm concerned. I was reminded that some of the more complex moments in the Ozawa recording did sound a bit confused, in comparison with more recent recordings.

I recall my joy at the time of release on Oawa LPs. The recording and pressing quality were quite a step forward from the Le Roux, the pressing being far superior, despite being an RCA product*. However, I concur, it has since been pretty thoroughly eclipsed.

* Perhaps the drastic drop in pressing quality of RCA LPs came later. I never got on well with the CBSO/Rattle release. It's difficult to put my finger on it but the opening movement just did not live up to the impact of any of the performances I had heard, up to that date.

[jayne lee wilson]

The Gramophone Collection survey (PC, Aw/2008) had the following selections....

Historical choice: Ozawa
Old Favourite: Previn
Passionate choice: Chailly
Ultimate choice: Nagano

Also great respect and high praise to Rattle and Antoni Wit - both favourites of mine I’d have instead of Previn and Chailly if I made a top 5 or so...…….

[ostuni]

The Nagano is very well recorded, and the piano/orchestra balance strikes me as just right (and, unlike some, especially Salonen, the Ondes aren’t over-prominent). My problem with this recording is Aimard. The thing that worries me (but not many others, it seems…) about a lot of his Messiaen (he's the same in the 20 Régards, and Catalogue d'O) is that he often rushes Messiaen's slow music. Here, in Turangalila, an already fast ‘Jardin de sommeil’ is undermined by his pushing forward of the piano solos. And he rushes in early for the very first piano solo in the opening Introduction.

By contrast, his one-time pupil Tamara Stefanovich, and the ever-impressive Steven Osborne, for Soddy and Mena respectively, rarely put a foot/finger wrong.

[Bryn]

. . . My problem with this recording is Aimard. The thing that worries me (but not many others, it seems…) about a lot of his Messiaen (he's the same in the 20 Régards, and Catalogue d'O) is that he often rushes Messiaen's slow music. Here, in Turangalila, an already fast ‘Jardin de sommeil’ is undermined by his pushing forward of the piano solos. And he rushes in early for the very first piano solo in the opening Introduction.

Aimard/Nagano are marginally slower than the Messiaen-supervised Loriod/La Roux.

[jayne lee wilson]

Salonen was my first Turangalila, off of cassette, so I've always recalled it fondly. But just trying the 16/44.1 offering on Qobuz now, it doesn't sound in the least dry (cf. my remarks on his Canyons above). The balance of warmth and clarity is gorgeous, and if it is more "abstract" rather than dramatic in its textural and dynamic contrasts I find the seductive SQ pleasures the ears too much for me to disengage. Nor does the Ondes sound over-prominent. It crests the orchestral wave, yes, but is still beautifully balanced.

That Turanga-intertext, Éclairs sur l'au-delà, would be a great choice for a BaL. There are only - what, six recordings extant? I have them all on CD except Cambreling; the Polish première is lined up for later (Messaien goes well with Bruckner...).

[Alison]

Eclairs is surely a sleeping giant of the repertoire and ripe for concert scheduling and recordings. I’ve never forgotten the impact of the work sitting in the choir stalls at the Proms 20 odd years ago. BBCSO/Sir Andrew Davis.

[RichardB]

Eclairs is surely a sleeping giant of the repertoire and ripe for concert scheduling and recordings.

Indeed. But probably what stops this from happening more than anything else is the scoring, with 10 each of flute- and clarinet-players required, with a total, if I'm not mistaken, of 128 musicians. Very few non-choral compositions, if any, would involve so many people; and all those wind players have non-trivial parts. I haven't seen a performance of it but I wish I had. I'm not convinced that the unison of bassoons and horns that runs through the sixth movement has really been captured on any of the available recordings.

[Bryn]

Salonen was my first Turangalila, off of cassette, so I've always recalled it fondly. But just trying the 16/44.1 offering on Qobuz now, it doesn't sound in the least dry (cf. my remarks on his Canyons above). The balance of warmth and clarity is gorgeous, and if it is more "abstract" rather than dramatic in its textural and dynamic contrasts I find the seductive SQ pleasures the ears too much for me to disengage. Nor does the Ondes sound over-prominent. It crests the orchestral wave, yes, but is still beautifully balanced.

That Turanga-intertext, Éclairs sur l'au-delà, would be a great choice for a BaL. There are only - what, six recordings extant? I have them all on CD except Cambreling; the Polish première is lined up for later (Messaien goes well with Bruckner...).

The earliest releases of recordings of Éclairs sur l'au-delà ... were subjected to somewhat bullying tactics by Universal, it would seem. Somehow, the Wit live recording managed to get out of the gates first but the Porcelijn was held back to let the Chung grab the early sales despite the Australian ABC records being independent of Universal. I am rather fond of the Procelijn. It is also unfortunate that Kent Nagano has not, as yet, made a commercial recording of the work. His first UK performance of Éclairs sur l'au-delà ... would make a pretty good addition to the catalogue (with only minor edits to remove some extraneous incidental noises). Sadly, the VHS HiFi recordings I made from the two broadcasts of the performance, suffer from EM interference from my then neighbour's podiatry tool's unsuppressed electric motor and the very low-level clicking generated by the helical scan of the recorder. You (jlw) kindly sent me the cassette recording you made from one of the broadcasts but that, too, has its own fidelity weaknesses. A commercial recording from Andrew Davis would also be welcome, given the performance he gave at Westminster Cathedral.

[RichardB]

Continuing offtopically, I listened to mvt 6 this morning in both Rattle's and Metzmacher's versions. The latter is much slower and the percussion much more resonant. I remember thinking that Rattle was a major improvement on Chung (I haven't yet heard Wit or Porcelijn, and don't have a clear memory of Cambreling).

(edit: I meant to say that for the cited reasons I preferred Metzmacher to Rattle in this movement)