BaL 26.05.12/25.02.23 - Messiaen: Turangalila Symphony

[Bryn]

I don't know why Salonen bothers with Messiaen - both in this piece and in Des canyons... his approach is so detached and abstract as to be, to my mind at least, exactly the opposite of what the music needs. I don't think I've ever even heard the Previn recording.

One of the most important aspects of the work for me is the way it intertwines rigorous structure and intense expressiveness. I guess some might say it involves too much of both. The ingenious and always clearly perceptible way that its thematic material is transformed and varied, at the same time without any hint of traditional "symphonic" development, is a thing of great beauty as far as I'm concerned. Not to mention the wildly colourful orchestration (which owes more to Villa-Lobos than is generally acknowledged I think). If I ever tired of it this could only be due to being tired of living. (Mind you I really am tired of London.)

The Vega LPs came with an additional 10" disc with an interview between Messiaen and Claude Samuel. In that, Messiaen cites Villa-Lobos as an influence. Samuel's response is "Villa-Lobos? Tien, tien!"

[Joseph K]

One of the most important aspects of the work for me is the way it intertwines rigorous structure and intense expressiveness. I guess some might say it involves too much of both. The ingenious and always clearly perceptible way that its thematic material is transformed and varied, at the same time without any hint of traditional "symphonic" development, is a thing of great beauty as far as I'm concerned. Not to mention the wildly colourful orchestration (which owes more to Villa-Lobos than is generally acknowledged I think). If I ever tired of it this could only be due to being tired of living. (Mind you I really am tired of London.)

Well-put. It's an incredible work - whose purported flaws I remain happily deaf to.

[Pulcinella]

I don't know why Salonen bothers with Messiaen - both in this piece and in Des canyons... his approach is so detached and abstract as to be, to my mind at least, exactly the opposite of what the music needs. I don't think I've ever even heard the Previn recording.

One of the most important aspects of the work for me is the way it intertwines rigorous structure and intense expressiveness. I guess some might say it involves too much of both. The ingenious and always clearly perceptible way that its thematic material is transformed and varied, at the same time without any hint of traditional "symphonic" development, is a thing of great beauty as far as I'm concerned. Not to mention the wildly colourful orchestration (which owes more to Villa-Lobos than is generally acknowledged I think). If I ever tired of it this could only be due to being tired of living. (Mind you I really am tired of London.)

I bought the Salonen recordings (both Turangalila and Des canyons) because they feature Paul Crossley (of Tippett Piano sonata fame). I think (but now can't remember for sure) that Salonen will have been the conductor of the performance of Des canyons I heard in the Sheldonian in Oxford, early 1970s. Not having heard it elsewhere I had no comparison to make.

[Pulcinella]

As a side matter, the Ozawa November Steps has been available on a Japanese CD issue from 1999 (RCA Red Seal BVCC-37283) which is immensely valuable, coupled as it is with Ozawa's Toronto recordings of Asterism, Green, the Requiem for Strings and The Dorian Horizon.

I too have fond memories of Ozawa's Turangalila, a favourite with me before I fell out of love with the Messiaen piece.

I shall search it out on Deezer.

PS: Found, as well as a Decca release of November Steps.

[Bryn]

I shall search it out on Deezer.

PS: Found, as well as a Decca release of November Steps.

The Ozawa was issued on CD as part of a double French RCA album. It was a rather poor transfer. It has since had a better-sounding single-disc release.

[Serial_Apologist]

The Ozawa was issued on CD as part of a double French RCA album. It was a rather poor transfer. It has since had a better-sounding single-disc release.

Not according to the pic with the amazing LOVE bookends (Rauschenberg?) on the original gatefold?

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't know why Salonen bothers with Messiaen - both in this piece and in Des canyons... his approach is so detached and abstract as to be, to my mind at least, exactly the opposite of what the music needs. I don't think I've ever even heard the Previn recording.

One of the most important aspects of the work for me is the way it intertwines rigorous structure and intense expressiveness. I guess some might say it involves too much of both. The ingenious and always clearly perceptible way that its thematic material is transformed and varied, at the same time without any hint of traditional "symphonic" development, is a thing of great beauty as far as I'm concerned. Not to mention the wildly colourful orchestration (which owes more to Villa-Lobos than is generally acknowledged I think). If I ever tired of it this could only be due to being tired of living. (Mind you I really am tired of London.)

The everything is forgiven!

[Master Jacques]

I don't know why Salonen bothers with Messiaen - both in this piece and in Des canyons... his approach is so detached and abstract as to be, to my mind at least, exactly the opposite of what the music needs.

I think you're spot on about Salonen's dessicated approach to Des canyons..., and don't follow the critical favour it has enjoyed. (I haven't heard his Turangalila).

[Pulcinella]

Not according to the pic with the amazing LOVE bookends (Rauschenberg?) on the original gatefold?

This?

https://www.discogs.com/release/13707119-Olivier-Messiaen-Seiji-Ozawa-Toronto-Symphony-Turangalîla-Symphony

[Pulcinella]

The Ozawa was issued on CD as part of a double French RCA album. It was a rather poor transfer. It has since had a better-sounding single-disc release.
...

Oops.
I think I've confused myself and Bryn.
My 'it' referred to the Toronto November Steps, but the CD I found, though the Toronto Symphony, has other Takemitsu works on it.
I'd already discovered the single CD release of Turangalila and listened to it.

[Serial_Apologist]

This?

https://www.discogs.com/release/1370...lîla-Symphony

The very one, Pulcers.

[Pulcinella]

I think you're spot on about Salonen's dessicated approach to Des canyons..., and don't follow the critical favour it has enjoyed. (I haven't heard his Turangalila).

The canyons are rather desiccated though, aren't they?

[Master Jacques]

The canyons are rather desiccated though, aren't they?

Point gained, Pulcinella - especially as you can spell 'desiccated' and I can't!!

[Serial_Apologist]

The canyons are rather desiccated though, aren't they?

Only in your head...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8sa30xKB9k

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm partial enough to Salonen's way to have the very revealing blu-spec CD of the Canyons. Which reveals a spaciously-3D, noticeably warm-textured sound with lovely singing lines in the birdsongs and e.g. the Aldebaran movement, contrasting with the vast stony monuments around them. A study in instrumental and dynamic contrasts if you like, less keenly dramatised than some, but for me a true sonical refresher; the soundbalance on this mastering is never dry.

For the Cosmic Dances, off-the-shelf would come Rattle, Wit or Nagano; I'm keen to hear the Lintu, who scarcely cuts a dud record. But I'm more drawn to the Éclairs nowadays; a key work for me.