BaL 21.04.12 - Prokofiev's Symphony no. 5

[Bryn]

Dont be so condisending about people's disabilites Bryn!!!

Looks like this will be rather a good BaL.

Simply quoting from the questionable customer review for identification purposes. I have yet to hear the recording. I place my trust in jlw's assessment.

[Panjandrum]

Gramophone came down in favour of Karajan (one of my two recordings of Prokofiev 5; the other being the Previn/LSO) when it surveyed the available recordings back in 99. The view then was that the Rattle lacked the last ounce of spark, and that the engineers had not quite mastered the acoustics at Symphony Hall, which was a relatively new venue at the time of the recording. It could, of course, just be that jlw's set up is superior to the Gramophone reviewer's.

[PJPJ]

The discs aren't available separately but I think it's an excellent set and very well recorded:

[PJPJ]

...... and Ashkenazy in an under-rated version with the Concertgebouw which sounds superb.

And it's coupled with what I feel is an excellent 6th as well in its 2CD incarnation.

[jayne lee wilson]

You won't be disappointed! I just played a few minutes of the scherzo - phew, crikey, I muttered under my breath once again - it really is a stunner! Almost BIS-like, natural, spacious, high-definition, huge dynamic range. Not all Symphony Hall tapings came out so well.

Soileduk - not to open a can of worms but the quality of the disc itself can be a factor in SQ; years ago Stereophile did a magisterial analysis of digital sound (try their archive - "CD - Jitter, errors and magic") - and found CDs to apparently be the source of worryingly varying levels of jitter, even for the same issues.. (re)mastering is not the only factor...

Simply quoting from the questionable customer review for identification purposes. I have yet to hear the recording. I place my trust in jlw's assessment.

[Alf-Prufrock]

Rattle is magnificent - get the original CD issue (great sound & artwork) if you can; then Szell and Ansermet. Karajan too, but it's not quite the go-to reference it once was - the sound is a little synthetic, not as fresh, acoustically, as those others.

Impressed as always by JLW's recommendations (and I am one of the few Rattle fans on this board), I looked this disc up on Amazon. There is one review for it, a 1-star job. The writer says, 'How anyone with good hearing and with half a decent playback system, (CD player, Interconnects, Amps, Speakers) could "enjoy" this EMI recording is beyond me and probably beyond anyone who claims to have a decent pair of ears.' Not what I was expecting to read, and she goes on to add more of the kind slating the actual recording quality.

Is this simply a matter of taste, do you think, Jayne, or is that writer completely nuts?

[jayne lee wilson]

Impressed as always by JLW's recommendations (and I am one of the few Rattle fans on this board), I looked this disc up on Amazon. There is one review for it, a 1-star job. The writer says, 'How anyone with good hearing and with half a decent playback system, (CD player, Interconnects, Amps, Speakers) could "enjoy" this EMI recording is beyond me and probably beyond anyone who claims to have a decent pair of ears.' Not what I was expecting to read, and she goes on to add more of the kind slating the actual recording quality.

Is this simply a matter of taste, do you think, Jayne, or is that writer completely nuts?

Many of this Amazon reviewer's other ratings are 1 or 2 stars and her comments often repeated or similar, concerning "distant" sound... looks to me like a system problem.

The Rattle Prokofiev 5 could be described as "uncompromising" as could many from BIS - they give you the best, most truthful sound they can, as if to say, "here it is, it's up to you to deal with it". I have myself owned systems which couldn't really cope - sounding too distant, but being unable to accommodate the dynamic peaks. It's all about amplifier power (not so much average power as the extra dynamic ability to meet sudden climaxes), colouration and scale. Quite modest speakers can do surprising things fed by high-power, high-quality amps.

One of the problems with a mid-hall perspective, combined with a wide dynamic range, is that if you have to keep the volume down to avoid peak distortion or overload, the quieter music can seem too distant, "small", or even indistinct.
But I don't feel the Rattle Prokofiev 5 is especially difficult here.

[BBMmk2]

I think that Jayne Lee Wilson shoulddo a rather good job being a BaL reviewer herself!!

[Thomas Roth]

I´m surprised, or not really, that the superb version by LSO and Tilson Thomas hasn´t been mentioned. It is one of the best ever.

[BBMmk2]

I see that MTT is doing some Mahler with the LSO soon!

[Thomas Roth]

Mahler ... can´t we please have a year with no Mahler.

[soileduk]

[/QUOTE]Soileduk - not to open a can of worms but the quality of the disc itself can be a factor in SQ; years ago Stereophile did a magisterial analysis of digital sound (try their archive - "CD - Jitter, errors and magic") - and found CDs to apparently be the source of worryingly varying levels of jitter, even for the same issues.. (re)mastering is not the only factor...[/QUOTE]
Hi Jayne,
Oooh that is a can of worms, but yes CD quality as an item is variable. I'd just checked to see if there had been a re-mastering but as there hasn't I'd concluded a case of cloth ear for the second review.
The Kitajenko set has been deleted so if any of you want a set be quick. The river people did have some a little while ago.

[HighlandDougie]

I´m surprised, or not really, that the superb version by LSO and Tilson Thomas hasn´t been mentioned. It is one of the best ever.

I may be wrong but I think that the last time this symphony was given an airing on BaL the LSO/MTT recording on Sony Classical was the recommended recording. I can't think why else I would have gone out of my way to buy it as I had (and have) numerous other recordings which is a long-winded preamble to endorse heartily TR's espousal of it. It is indeed very fine: a well-played, well-measured and exciting performance, which is also well-recorded. Alas, not currently available but given Sony BMG's enthusiasm for re-cycling their catalogue it might not be long before it reappears

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Mahler ... can´t we please have a year with no Mahler.

No.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I think I am correct in saying that Geoffrey Norris did a BaL on Prokofiev 5 in something like 1979 when his chosen recommendation was LSO/Weller.

Your memory does not deceive you Petrushka!

The field then was PCO/ Martinon (Decca Eclipse), SRO/ Ansermet (Decca Ace of Diamonds), BPO/ Karajan (DG), Moscow RO/ Rozhdestvensky (HMV box set), Paris ORTF/ Martinon (Turnabout), LSO/ Weller (Decca) and Cleveland Orch/ Maazel (Decca).

4 Deccas out of 7, not even counting the Turnabout which I think was closely aligned with them too.

Despite appearances my memory isn't as good as Petrushka's - I just happen to have on my shelves the published version in Building a Library 2 ed. John Lade, pub. 1980