BaL 14.04.12 Mozart Symphony no 41 "Jupiter"

[vinteuil]

the 16 box sets of Mozart LPs.

... well, I have ONE box set of the Haebler concertos on LPs - and I gave another boxed set to my brother as a Christmas present - but to have SIXTEEN sets does seem a trifle excessive...

[MickyD]

I enjoyed this BAL. It was good to be reminded how very good the Hogwood/AAM is - on my shelves, but haven't listened to for years, must remedy - so intelligent, lithe, alert.

I quite agree, Vinteuil. I think the Hogwood cycle in general is very underrated - to me it was and still is, a breath of fresh air.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... well, I have ONE box set of the Haebler concertos on LPs - and I gave another boxed set to my brother as a Christmas present - but to have SIXTEEN sets does seem a trifle excessive...

Now then, don't mock. I was referring to the Complete Philips Mozart Edition on LP (not nearly so complete as the CD version, though there are are few things missing here too).

[pastoralguy]

I quite agree, Vinteuil. I think the Hogwood cycle in general is very underrated - to me it was and still is, a breath of fresh air.

My lovely wife bought me this set in Milan last November for 25 Euros in fnac. I'm ashamed to say it's still in its plastic wrap...

[Bryn]

Some reviewers just don't like slow movements - unless they are fast.

A bit that the views of those who composed them, eh?

[Alison]

#28 Good shout, Nethersage !

Any views on the Norrington Bruckner 9 ??

[Bryn]

#28 Good shout, Nethersage !

Any views on the Norrington Bruckner 9 ??

I like it, a lot, but I do wish he had included one or other of the most recent completions of the final movement. Beware, however, if you think fierelich if the Adagio. Langsam; fierelich should be translated as "funeral". For me, the performance has solemnity enough to fit the bill, though I know other contributors to these and the r3ok boards take a very different view. Norrington and the Stuttgarters take the slow movement around 50% faster than has become traditional.

[MickyD]

My lovely wife bought me this set in Milan last November for 25 Euros in fnac. I'm ashamed to say it's still in its plastic wrap...

Unwrap it immediately and start with the early symphonies, I think they are thrilling performances.

[Tony Halstead]

It seemed very odd to me that on the one hand MC praised the Boult/ LPO because it ( allegedly) gave us 'what Mozart wrote' ( i.e. no extra dynamic tinkerings, speed adjustments, etc.) and then in the end chose the Norrington / Stuttgart, which sounded like it was bristling with extraneous 'interpretative tweaks'.

How I do wish that reviewers would lump all the 'old instrument' recordings together maybe at the beginning or the end of their pronouncements on 'modern instrument' recordings. Flitting from modern to period orchestras, sometimes only a few seconds apart, makes for some truly horrible lurches of pitch.
As far as I know, the Hogwood, Gardiner, Pinnock and Immerseel orchestras play at A=430 - exactly 'in the crack' between modern A=440 and 'baroque' A=415 pitch, so, about half a semitone / quarter of a tone flat.

[ardcarp]

How I do wish that reviewers would lump all the 'old instrument' recordings together maybe at the beginning or the end of their pronouncements on 'modern instrument' recordings. Flitting from modern to period orchestras, sometimes only a few seconds apart, makes for some truly horrible lurches of pitch.
As far as I know, the Hogwood, Gardiner, Pinnock and Immerseel orchestras play at A=430 - exactly 'in the crack' between modern A=440 and 'baroque' A=415 pitch, so, about half a semitone / quarter of a tone flat.

I couldn't agree more. Induces C-sickness. But more importantly, it is an impossible ask to review such a 'popular' work in so many versions, so wide a range of performance styles, and eight decades of recording technology. Surely it would have been better for us and for the reviewer to have been given a narrower brief, e.g. period instrument performances only. I felt the same about last week's St Matthew Passion survey. Jeremy Summerly was, IMO, struggling to produce a review to his usually brilliant standard.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Surely it would have been better for us and for the reviewer to have been given a narrower brief, e.g. period instrument performances only.

No, absolutely not. The dismissive attitude of some reviewers to all non-twangy performances would be doubled by this policy. But it would make sense to have recommendations from both camps.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A bit that the views of those who composed them, eh?

No evidence whatever in this instance. K.551 was probably never performed in Mozart's lifetime, and there's only the vague "Andante Cantabile" , which can mean whatever the conductor wants it to mean.
My point is that with the speed obsessed Norringtons of this world, the slow movements are effectively quicker than the outer movements as the "slowness" is compensated for by the composer with an abundance of demisemiquavers.

[ardcarp]

Alps. I wasn't trying to plug either twangy or non-twangy. Just making the point that sometimes a reviewing task is just too wide to be possible. But I agree a two-way top tip would have been good.

(I'm always reminded of a line from The Cat in Red Dwarf: "Man, he's so un-hip his ass'll drop off")

[Bryn]

No evidence whatever in this instance. K.551 was probably never performed in Mozart's lifetime, and there's only the vague "Andante Cantabile" , which can mean whatever the conductor wants it to mean.
My point is that with the speed obsessed Norringtons of this world, the slow movements are effectively quicker than the outer movements as the "slowness" is compensated for by the composer with an abundance of demisemiquavers.

Seems me the obsession with speed, or in this case lack of it, lies somewhere other than with Norrington.

[rauschwerk]

Seems me the obsession with speed, or in this case lack of it, lies somewhere other than with Norrington.

Agreed.

Having listened to my favourite of the three versions I have (Pinnock) I decided that he does not use enough strings to counterbalance even the woodwind. I therefore downloaded Norrington (no longer a FLAC virgin now!) and listened carefully. His slow movement tempo (ie the crotchet pulse) seems perfectly ok for Adagio cantabile to me. I'm a bit uncomfortable only with his first movement tempo, which is more like Allegro con brio than Allegro vivace.

I then opened the score and scanned the first movement. I was astonished to find that the only dynamic markings are piano and forte, with no gradations at all. Did Mozart really intend it to be performed in that way? Norrington clearly thinks not, and passages like bars 9-23 (Wagner's "rattling of dishes at a banquet" in the wrong hands) sound really musical with the use of nuances within the basic forte dynamic. His slight crescendo in bar 1 can be seen in the same light and I am not a bit disturbed by it.

I am pleased that he does not do repeats in the da capo of the Minuet, and he almost convinces me that it's right to do the second repeat in the finale.

I therefore urge all to listen on Monday with open minds.