BaL - 4.03.12 - Nielsen's Symphony no. 4

[Master Jacques]

The latest RCA CD incarnation of the CSO/Martinon Inextinguishable (coupled with Morton Gould's admired recording of the 2nd Symphony) does sound better than the Victrola pressing with which I grew up, too. Unfortunately when RCA were doing the remastering they followed the frustrating LP side turn, by keeping a gaping five second gap between the 3rd and 4th movements (after the grand crescendo) instead of going straight into the finale 'attaca' as Nielsen wrote.

The old RCA 'Navigator' CD sounds marginally shriller than the latest version, BUT that destructive gap between movements is eliminated completely, so anyone who has this edition - coupled with Previn's Nielsen No.1 and Prelude to Saul and David - should hang on to it.

Aside from that, the sonics, string playing and performance on the more recent mastering are as thrilling as they always were.

[Bryn]

The latest RCA CD incarnation of the CSO/Martinon Inextinguishable (coupled with Morton Gould's admired recording of the 2nd Symphony) does sound better than the Victrola pressing with which I grew up, too. Unfortunately when RCA were doing the remastering they followed the frustrating LP side turn, by keeping a gaping five second gap between the 3rd and 4th movements (after the grand crescendo) instead of going straight into the finale 'attaca' as Nielsen wrote.

The old RCA 'Navigator' CD sounds marginally shriller than the latest version, BUT that destructive gap between movements is eliminated completely, so anyone who has this edition - coupled with Previn's Nielsen No.1 and Prelude to Saul and David - should hang on to it.

Aside from that, the sonics, string playing and performance on the more recent mastering are as thrilling as they always were.

By the "latest RCA CD incarnation", do you mean that in the 10 CD boxed set? I have the single disc (with the Gould 2nd) and was similarly annoyed, so I ripped it, closed up the gap, and burned to a CD-R. I'd be interested to know whether the fault has been carried over into the boxed set.

[zola]

The latest issue of BBC Music magazine has a building a library feature on Nielsen's Fourth and the Martinon disc is in the 'three other great recordings' category. The selected choice would I imagine be a fairly controversial one; Alan Gilbert with the New York Phil.

[richardfinegold]

My vast collection of old Penguin Guides indicates that the CSO/ Martinon recording on LP had a bad reputation for very shrill recording, at least in UK Victrola pressings. Presumably the master tapes were better, or perhaps critics hadn't got used to the abrasiveness of Nielsen's idiom in this work??

I used to have that lp, but having sold off my turntable and lps a few years ago, can't easily recall, except that I tend to remember really ugly sounding recordings and that doesn't ring a bell (or should I say double timpani?) .

[jayne lee wilson]

The latest issue of BBC Music magazine has a building a library feature on Nielsen's Fourth and the Martinon disc is in the 'three other great recordings' category. The selected choice would I imagine be a fairly controversial one; Alan Gilbert with the New York Phil.

The NYPO/Gilbert is a magnificent 4th - but with a potentially off-putting feature: a grandly rhetorical rallentando for the conclusion (the notation is in fact accelerando - but how often do we actually hear that?). I'm afraid DJF in the Gramophone seemed to find this all-but-fatal ("close to a fatal flaw" see G., 12/14) to his enjoyment of what was otherwise a performance that impressed him greatly.
I guess if you can go with it, in the moment, the spacious, full, very dynamic and highly resolved sound of the NYPO here can offer a truly thrilling experience; but in my own case.... I have managed to go with it sometimes, but its final rhetoric-of-triumph can seem, especially upon later reflection, very over-obvious...and perhaps rather against the spirit of Nielsen's music.

So - one you really have to try for yourself...
But, as a reading generally, it shares with the Storgårds the great virtue of letting the music breathe, finding much more in it than mere headlong energy (which, with its somewhat stiff metricality, is perhaps the main drawback of the explosive CSO/Martinon...I used to feel this, to a lesser extent, about the hallowed SFSO/Blomstedt - which it seems finally time to revisit...)...

(btw - which were the other two BBC choices...?)

[zola]

(btw - which were the other two BBC choices...?)

Neeme Jarvi, 1993 Gothenburg SO. And Esa-Pekka Salonen 1986 Swedish Radio SO. 'One to avoid' was Rattle and the CBSO. Blomstedt not mentioned at all. Reviewer was Francis Pott, a name I am unfamilar with.

[Bryn]

Neeme Jarvi, 1993 Gothenburg SO. And Esa-Pekka Salonen 1986 Swedish Radio SO. 'One to avoid' was Rattle and the CBSO. Blomstedt not mentioned at all. Reviewer was Francis Pott, a name I am unfamilar with.

Phew! I'd say the Salonen was pretty much avoidable, too. Perhaps more so than the Rattle.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Phew! I'd say the Salonen was pretty much avoidable, too.

Exactly my reaction (and IIRC, the Penguins weren't impressed, either - giving but a single star). It was among the first CD versions of the work, so (having others on LP and cassette) I bought it to have a CD. Oh dear.

[Bryn]

By the "latest RCA CD incarnation", do you mean that in the 10 CD boxed set? I have the single disc (with the Gould 2nd) and was similarly annoyed, so I ripped it, closed up the gap, and burned to a CD-R. I'd be interested to know whether the fault has been carried over into the boxed set.

Just a quick note to mention that it's not only a few seconds of ambient that need removing from the end of the 3rd movement, there is also a short section of 'dead air' at the start of the 4th movement which also needs deleting. Audacity will serve to carry out the editing at no cost, bar that of the CD-R to burn to, plus the time, effort and electricty to do the jobs (all pretty minimal).

[HighlandDougie]

The version in the 10 disc set has been edited to remove the gap so the third and fourth movements are - almost - seamless. I'm not sure that Bryn's 'dead air' has been entirely eliminated, hence my use of 'almost'.

No-one has mentioned Thomas Dausgaard and the Seattle SO. Very well played and recorded, although maybe a touch hard-driven in the first movement.

[jayne lee wilson]

I tried the Seattle/Dausgaard via Qobuz and found it lacking earthiness and immediacy (the mid-concert-hall setting contributes to a sense of anonymity e.g. in the horn calls etc) and yes, it is another member of the fast-and-metrical school as well. AM in Gramophone called it "low-octane" in its outer movements, and I can only concur....

As I've been saying on the Nielsen composers' thread, I find Storgårds, Gilbert and P-Järvi all very rewarding in the 4th as in the Nielsen Cycle generally - compare the thrillingly dramatic & immediate-sounding (but with room for expressiveness) Frankfurt RSO/Järvi to the Seattle/Dausgaard... there's only one very clear winner..

[HighlandDougie]

I tried the Seattle/Dausgaard via Qobuz and found it lacking earthiness and immediacy (the mid-concert-hall setting contributes to a sense of anonymity e.g. in the horn calls etc) and yes, it is another member of the fast-and-metrical school as well. AM in Gramophone called it "low-octane" in its outer movements, and I can only concur....

As I've been saying on the Nielsen composers' thread, I find Storgårds, Gilbert and P-Jårvi all very rewarding in the 4th as in the Nielsen Cycle generally - compare the thrillingly dramatic & immediate-sounding (but with room for expressiveness) Frankfurt RSO/Järvi to the Seattle/Dausgaard... there's only one very clear winner..

À chacun son goût. Launy Grøndahl is my benchmark in this symphony. Dausgaard - "low octane" - que? - suits me just fine, especially as a 24/96 download. I assume that AM is Andrew Mellor, whose judgement I might respect but certainly don't share. I bought the Järvi set when it appeared on CD but don't find myself reaching for it when I want to listen to Nielsen. Great recording, as ever from the Alte Oper, but it didn't grab me - however I will re-try. Ditto Storgårds, either on CD or as off-air recordings. I must have around 20 recordings of the 4th in various formats so will do a mini-BaL when TOH is out of the house (7pm is not a good time). But delighted that Jayne is keeping the Nielsen flag flying.

[jayne lee wilson]

"Low-Octane".... just a metaphor for a lack of excitement really.... which as I said, I'm afraid is true to these ears about the Seattle 4th (heard via Qobuz Studio, 24/96), especially in the closing pages..
...so subjective, so it goes.....

[Barbirollians]

"Low-Octane".... just a metaphor for a lack of excitement really.... which as I said, I'm afraid is true to these ears about the Seattle 4th (heard via Qobuz Studio, 24/96), especially in the closing pages..
...so subjective, so it goes.....

Talking of subjective - is Bernstein's version as bad as so many of the reviews seem to suggest ....

[jayne lee wilson]

With the Danish RSO/Blomstedt, (rec. 1974, off a Japanese EMI Forte double) the sound is so right, the sense of movement so right, it seems this might be the one….warm, immediate and richly textured, flowing organically from one section into the next, full and dynamic. Naturally paced by the eminent Nielsonian. A great sense of excitement, of a live event. But at the andante’s climax, there’s some congestion; we feel perilously close to overload in the approach, and not all of the brasses come through at the (otherwise very powerful) climax itself. A great shame given the stunning attack and immediacy with which the eagle-on-the-wind movement begins.
So in the finale, the brass have a satisfying blare but simultaneously reveal their limitations; the central episode, as all the main ideas of this intensively through-composed work pass in review, isn’t quiet or mysterious enough; but the blaze at the conclusion is more fulfilling than most. The orchestra sounds and feels right, but isn’t quite up to all the demands…they sound like they only just made it!

Not entirely inapt to the piece, really….

It is always hard for me to find an Inextinguishable I really love; there’s so much idiomatic good in this one, just one too many drawbacks; but it takes its very honoured place in the recorded history.…and always draws me back.