BaL - 4.03.12 - Nielsen's Symphony no. 4

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In a decision-making process where I think we all(*) agree there are no 'scientific' right answers, aren't critics allowed to change their minds???

(*)With the honourable exception of Sidney Grew of course, with his unequalled ability to rank all composers objectively - see the old BBCR3 board!

Yes, of course (as John Steane infamously did when he spent a good deal of his second survey of Tristan & Isolde pointing out the flaws in the version he'd recommended in his first!) - but it would've been useful to hear what reservations he had the first time round that he now feels aren't valid.

[Flosshilde]

Have there been any other Nielsen symphonies featured in BaL?

There was one on the fifth not many years ago (can't remember when), which introduced me to it - not a work I would have been interested in, but I was cleaning the bathroom & was able to concentrate on it (BaL I mean) & was very excited by it. I have a feeling that it was a recording by Bernstein that 'won'. (But I bought the CD set that includes the current 'winner' eventually)

[Nick Armstrong]

?
So, twelve years ago, this same reviewer recommended a version that today he found fault with, preferring a version that was available twelve years ago that he then (presumably) found fault with?!

Shall we all just hang around for another twelve years when he'll choose the Davis?

I know what you mean, fhg - but as the man said, only a fool never changes his mind. I have no problem with that - it might have been preferable had Mr Fanning acknowledged the change and explained it.

I completely agree with LMP and Ammy about the drawback identified in the Davis being rather a turn on than a turn off... but I think I shall remain true to the Blomstedt which I've raved about since it came out. One of those recordings of a piece with which one compares all others, to the latters' detriment by and large

[BBMmk2]

Well done, Herbert and his Californians! I have all 6 Nielsen symphonies with these forces, and think they're all wonderfully played (even the tricky, enigmatic 6th).

I am also glad that Blomsted and the San Fransisco Symphony won the accolade! It is a fine cycle in genral, really.

[Nick Armstrong]

Noting the word 'historic' in the para from the BAL archives quoted above for the October 2000 recommendation

Nielsen: Symphony No.4, “The Inextinguishable” David Fanning
First Choice (historic): The Danish Radio Symphony DANACORD DACOCD 351-353 (3-CD)
Orchestra, Thomas Jensen (conductor) (DISCOVERY RECORDS)


I wonder in fact whether the archive is complete - if he made an historic first choice, presumably he chose a modern recording too. That isn't mentioned...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That puzzled me too.

[Sir Velo]

For a long time I would have hung my colours on Blomstedt in this symphony but perusing Qobuz last night, ostensibly for Jean Martinon's recordings of Ravel with the CSO, encountered his electrifying reading of Nielsen 4. In fact it has to be said that this may have supplanted the Blomstedt in my affections! Certainly the timpani duel has rarely been equalled for its ferocity, and the subsequent victory, therefore, more hard won. The recording as well, for the late sixties is remarkably vivid and realistic. You would be hard pushed to guess its vintage.

Recently, on another thread, the Martinon/CSO collaboration was considered a disaster. Based on the evidence of the Nielsen 4, the Daphnis and Arcana it has to be said that standards of near perfection which the orchestra attained under Reiner were more than maintained under Martinon.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Nielsen 4 - Markevitch

Does anyone know about recordings of the 4th by the Royal Danish Orch under Igor Markevitch, in particular how many there were?

I've acquired a charity shop copy of such a recording on an HMV/EMI 'Dansk Musik' LP with Danish and English sleeve-notes. Of quite late manufacture I think, 1980s?, and coupled with Saga-Drom. The Discogs listing https://www.discogs.com/Carl-Nielsen...elease/3518651 suggests there are two such recordings, one on US Vox Turnabout of unknown date and without coupling, the other on DG from 1966 with Saga-Drom.

The latter, by then on Heliodor, was the 1977 Penguin Guide's recommendation for the 4th albeit with only two stars because of low recording level - the other contenders were just Barbirolli on Pye, Mehta (Decca) and Bernstein (CBS).

I'm rather baffled as to how a DG recording turns up on Danish HMV - or is it another recording altogether?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

From various ventures into the internet undergrowth, I think that what happened is that Markevitch and the Royal Danish Orch originally recorded the two works for FONA - a Danish Radio & Broadcasting recording company.

https://plade-klassikeren.dk/en/nielsen-carl-lp/907301-nielsen-symphony-no-4-en-saga-dr%C3%B8m-the-royal-danish-chapel-igor-markevitch-1-lp-fona.html

FONA didn't have a distribution contract in the States, so licensed Turnabout to issue the Symphony there - and (I presume) similar distribution issues resulted in DGG issuing it (with the original coupling) in Germany (?and the rest of Europe?) in 1966.

In 1971, FONA was acquired by EMI - giving them access to the recording, too.

[LeMartinPecheur]

From various ventures into the internet undergrowth, I think that what happened is that Markevitch and the Royal Danish Orch originally recorded the two works for FONA - a Danish Radio & Broadcasting recording company.

https://plade-klassikeren.dk/en/nielsen-carl-lp/907301-nielsen-symphony-no-4-en-saga-dr%C3%B8m-the-royal-danish-chapel-igor-markevitch-1-lp-fona.html

FONA didn't have a distribution contract in the States, so licensed Turnabout to issue the Symphony there - and (I presume) similar distribution issues resulted in DGG issuing it (with the original coupling) in Germany (?and the rest of Europe?) in 1966.

In 1971, FONA was acquired by EMI - giving them access to the recording, too.

Thanks fhg, that clarifies things. And means I won't be rushing to buy the Vox Turnabout LP copy currently listed on Amazon for 20-odd quid https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...n+4+markevitch

Wouldn't have been rushing anyway, but even more so now

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

[jayne lee wilson]

For a long time I would have hung my colours on Blomstedt in this symphony but perusing Qobuz last night, ostensibly for Jean Martinon's recordings of Ravel with the CSO, encountered his electrifying reading of Nielsen 4. In fact it has to be said that this may have supplanted the Blomstedt in my affections! Certainly the timpani duel has rarely been equalled for its ferocity, and the subsequent victory, therefore, more hard won. The recording as well, for the late sixties is remarkably vivid and realistic. You would be hard pushed to guess its vintage.

Recently, on another thread, the Martinon/CSO collaboration was considered a disaster. Based on the evidence of the Nielsen 4, the Daphnis and Arcana it has to be said that standards of near perfection which the orchestra attained under Reiner were more than maintained under Martinon.

Absolutely - and the coupling with the CSO/Gould Four Temperaments on the RCA Classic Library remaster is one of the great Nielsen Single-issue albums.
As I've been reconsidering on the Nielsen Composers thread recently, this musical world shifted on its axis as all those new sets came out across the 150th Anniversary, so this BaL is very out of date - the problem (previously) being that, many are only available in the boxset; but you can seek them out to stream. I found the P-Järvi 4th especially rewarding, though Storgårds and Gilbert have much to offer as well....

[Sir Velo]

Absolutely - and the coupling with the CSO/Gould Four Temperaments on the RCA Classic Library remaster is one of the great Nielsen Single-issue albums.
As I've been reconsidering on the Nielsen Composers thread recently, this musical world shifted on its axis as all those new sets came out across the 150th Anniversary, so this BaL is very out of date - the problem (previously) being that, many are only available in the boxset; but you can seek them out to stream. I found the P-Järvi especially rewarding, though Storgårds and Gilbert have much to offer as well....

I've "favourited" the Storgards and Oramo sets for future listening on Qobuz. Not currently in the mood for prolonged listening to Nielsen, but couldn't resist the opportunity to sample the Martinon, particularly when the playing and sound quality is so fine.

[richardfinegold]

For a long time I would have hung my colours on Blomstedt in this symphony but perusing Qobuz last night, ostensibly for Jean Martinon's recordings of Ravel with the CSO, encountered his electrifying reading of Nielsen 4. In fact it has to be said that this may have supplanted the Blomstedt in my affections! Certainly the timpani duel has rarely been equalled for its ferocity, and the subsequent victory, therefore, more hard won. The recording as well, for the late sixties is remarkably vivid and realistic. You would be hard pushed to guess its vintage.

Recently, on another thread, the Martinon/CSO collaboration was considered a disaster. Based on the evidence of the Nielsen 4, the Daphnis and Arcana it has to be said that standards of near perfection which the orchestra attained under Reiner were more than maintained under Martinon.

Artistically, the Martinon/CSO period was not considered a disaster by more than a few disgruntled players (Ray Still) and one pain in the ass Critic (Claudia “Acidy” Cassiday). Most of the recordings made were pretty treasurable, and I believe that a complete Martinon/CSO box of CDs were released very recently (I haven’t investigated, since it would be a lot of duplication for me). That Nielsen Fourth was pretty spectacular. I think the original lp issue split one of the movements in half rather gratuitously.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Artistically, the Martinon/CSO period was not considered a disaster by more than a few disgruntled players (Ray Still) and one pain in the ass Critic (Claudia “Acidy” Cassiday). Most of the recordings made were pretty treasurable, and I believe that a complete Martinon/CSO box of CDs were released very recently (I haven’t investigated, since it would be a lot of duplication for me). That Nielsen Fourth was pretty spectacular. I think the original lp issue split one of the movements in half rather gratuitously.

My vast collection of old Penguin Guides indicates that the CSO/ Martinon recording on LP had a bad reputation for very shrill recording, at least in UK Victrola pressings. Presumably the master tapes were better, or perhaps critics hadn't got used to the abrasiveness of Nielsen's idiom in this work??