BaL 14.01.12 - Elgar: Violin Concerto

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Who else remembers the BAL about Beethoven's Emperor concerto donkey's years ago when dear old Joseph Cooper set the cat amongst the hornets' nest with his final choice of Hanae Nakajima on the Windmill label? (I think) :

I do, for one, Am! I even bought the disc: 50p from Tesco.

[Chris Newman]

visualnickmos,
Not gibberish at all. Elgar can often sound very modern. If you get a chance to see the John Bridcut film about him (The Man Behind The Mask) you will immediately see how advanced some of his music was. There are amazing experiences such as when Ed Gardner demonstrates the moment in THE KINGDOM where the eerie shofar (sheep's horn) is added to the orchestra or where Mark Elder hears for the first time a partsong called OWLS which could have been written fity years later. I find much of his music very late romantic; like Richard Strauss, or Zemlinsky. There are times when he even sounds like Alban Berg or Arnold Schoenberg; dare I say more modern than Ralph Vaughan Williams?

[Chris Newman]

I do, for one, Am! I even bought the disc: 50p from Tesco.

I still have it. She was good. The orchestra was dire.

[Alison]

How do we feel about Tasmin Little's recording ?

A very companionable version I find, (kind of) one for the CD player in the kitchen
rather than the main system.

I know what I mean

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There are amazing experiences such as when Ed Gardner demonstrates the moment in THE KINGDOM where the eerie shofar (sheep's horn) is added to the orchestra

Actually the shofar appears in The Apostles. I've been to several performances of this work, all of which have substituted the shofar with a trumpet, just like the two recordings by Boult and Hickox.

[Barbirollians]

Haven't heard Little's Chandos recording but I wasn't impressed with her performance at the Proms with the same forces - very workaday .

[Pabmusic]

...Elgar was not the Victorian foot-stamping, patriotic empire-loving glorifier of the Bristish Lion, that he is so often unfairly portrayed as. I really do feel he was a very modern composer. Maybe I'm just talking gibberish to those on here who are musicologists, or experienced in the field through their vocations; I am not involved in the profession of music at all. I got Grade 4 clarinet! I paint, but I just love music, and all that surrounds it.

How right you are! Elgar fits easily into the same Central European late romantic and modernist (or expressionist) group as Richard Strauss, Gustav Mahler, Josef Suk, early Schoenberg, early Bartok, Szymonowski, and Franz Schmidt. This was recognised in his day in some quarters, though not so much since his death. There's an excellent little book, Elgar: An Extraordinary Life, by J.P.E. Harper-Scott, that explodes many myths (empire-loving glorifier of the British lion, for one) in the life of this complicated genius. (Beware, though, the same author has written a large tome, Edward Elgar: Modernist, which is a truly difficult read. Witness - "That formal summary is intentionally riddled with lacunae and provocative generalizations, but it gives aa good basic idea of the 'horizon' of the work itself; and proceeding from it we may ay now begin the long-promised hermeneutics..." And that passage has no brain-numbing analysis!)

[DoctorT]

So Zehetmair/Elder it is then. I enjoyed this Bal. Glad he liked the Little/A Davis recording, which has given me great pleasure, despite both performers often being damned with faint praise on these boards. It will do me for my desert island.

[amateur51]

An interesting BAL tho I didn't catch the very opening - did Sammons get a mention?

I am blessed with very idiosyncratic (!) hearing and so didn't find Sir Colin Davis' breaths & grunts a problem as evidenced. The portion of Menuhin's performance with Boult that was played was meant to highlight Menuhin's decline in tone & intonation but it sounded rather marvellous to me, especially the way that Boult drove the music forwards. It was a shame that Haendel & Hahn were dismissed so easily without playing any examples but I was pleased to hear the Zukerman/Barenboim recording which did not inspire me.

So .. I'll be looking out for the Zehetmair/Elder, Menuhin/Boult and the Little/Sir Andrew Davis from this morning and for the Campoli, based on the advocacy expressed on this thread

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Actually the shofar appears in The Apostles. I've been to several performances of this work, all of which have substituted the shofar with a trumpet, just like the two recordings by Boult and Hickox.

Ah, you weren't at the North-East London Polytechnic performance of both works in Hatfield Sports Centre in the fiftieth anniversary year (1983), then Alpie? The authentic Shofar was played by Crispian Steele-Perkins. Sadly, the Tenor soloist was indisposed on the day, so they had to get a last-minute substitute. IAN PARTRIDGE! Fantastic performance from everyone!

[amateur51]

Ah, you weren't at the North-East London Polytechnic performance of both works in Hatfield Sports Centre in the fiftieth anniversary year (1983), then Alpie? The authentic Shofar was played by Crispen Steele-Perkins. Sadly, the Tenor soloist was indisposed on the day, so they had to get a last-minute substitute. IAN PARTRIDGE! Fantastic performance from everyone!

Cor ferney! How marvellous! It's great to know that Ian Partridge is still working - a great artist

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

An interesting BAL tho I didn't catch the very opening - did Sammons get a mention?

Yes; but one of those "sneeze and you miss it" dismissals.

I am blessed with very idiosyncratic (!) hearing and so didn't find Sir Colin Davis' breaths & grunts a problem as evidenced.

The portion of Menuhin's performance with Boult that was played was meant to highlight Menuhin's decline in tone & intonation but it sounded rather marvellous to me, especially the way that Boult drove the music forwards.

One of those "excerpt suggests reviewer didn't know what s/he was talking about" moments!

It was a shame that Haendel & Hahn were dismissed so easily without playing any examples

I now want to hear both (and the Davis/Ehnes)far more than I do either of the "top recommendations"!

So .. I'll be looking out ... for the Campoli, based on the advocacy expressed on this thread

Campoli is a lovely performance, the insights revealed in the performance far outweighing the limited recorded sound.

Best Wishes.

(PS: Ammie, have you read Pab's comments on RVW's family tree? )

[LeMartinPecheur]

In the final excerpt (end of Finale) from the Zehetmair I was worried by the balance, the way that the soloist got totally obliterated by the orch well before he finished his notes. Maybe it was a "true concert-hall balance" but in the hall you can see that the soloist is still busting a gut to be heard. As you can't see that on a CD, I do think that there you need to be given just a bit of reassurance by the microphone balance and mixing.

[PJPJ]

So .. I'll be looking out for the Zehetmair/Elder, Menuhin/Boult and the Little/Sir Andrew Davis from this morning and for the Campoli, based on the advocacy expressed on this thread

I think the Little/Davis is very fine, and I suppose years of acquaintance with the Campoli makes me love that recording deeply. Will also have to play the Zehetmair and Menuhin/Boult again.

[Nick Armstrong]

Really enjoyed this BAL. I like the way they are allowing the reviewers to stray beyond the old 45 minute time slot - both last week and today it was nigh on an hour, I think (I looked at the time when it finished and it was 10:26) Plus I enjoyed the historical epilogue with AMcG comparing the historical versions. Intelligent programming

Time for interesting comparisons and measured comment (even though I didn't always agree e.g. like others such as Am51, I didn't see the problem he pointed out with the Menuhin/Boult extract). On the other hand he articulated and illustrated well what I thought of the Znaijder/Davis version when it came out. The Little/Davis version did sound great, and I like that big open Chandos acoustic (although I usually have a problem with that soloist). I have the Ehnes/Davis version and loved it last time I heard it, I must dig it out again and see if I agree with Martin Cotton's reservations.

One oddity - weren't we told (as I had always thought) that Heifetz never recorded it? So I was intrigued to read about:

an Elgar/Heifetz recorded in Cincinatti. I think the source data I used may be flawed and that that the version currently on Naxos is the only one he made. I get the impression that he didn't really take to the piece - he made no stereo version as he did others of the standard repertoire pieces. The coupling of the Walton from Cincinatti may have confused the compiler of my source?

It was the Heifetz that convinced me and it took me a while too, amazing intensity and he gets totally inside the work.

Is this an 'unofficial' off-air recording?