BaL 10.12.11 - Handel's Julius Caesar

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

Going to enjoy this. I only own the Jacobs set.

Have we heard from Sarah Lenton before? Wonder who she is.... Quick search shows her writing books, programme notes about opera.

I've often seen her at the ROH, usually contributing to Insight Evenings. Her style - unfussy, laid back, humorous - came across well in this discussion and, as a discussion, was enjoyable in its own right. However, even with an extended running time, there wasn't as much comparison between different singers in the roles as would have been possible with a traditional 'solo' BaL. I thought the Minkowski recording got short shrift, which is a pity, and am surprised the McVicar production at Glyndebourne didn't seem as well rated, as it's as near to a perfect production of anything I've ever seen!

[Nick Armstrong]

It was an enjoyable enough discussion about the piece, but it was all a bit scattergun as a guide to what versions are out there and as a demonstration of the relative merits of the performers. "Bit of a shambles" would be an uncharitable way of putting it... Rather too much time spent making jokey comments about the silliness of the plot or of various productions, which I'd have preferred being spent on a slightly more considered 'Building a Library' approach. Wasn't too encouraged at Ms Lenton's ability to tell me something I didn't know when she said "... then the tempi suddenly drops..."

However, good to hear the Mackerras version given full value and not dismissed for dogmatic HIPP reasons, and it has made me curious to see the Copenhagen production (though the audio sounded as if it had been recorded in the 50s, and not very well, I thought).

On a personal note, IGI, I was glad that the Glyndebourne production wasn't raved about - I didn't see it in the theatre, but based on the DVD I found myself allergic to all the quirky, camp glam of it (I have an odd aversion to Sarah Connolly, completely irrational, and Danielle De Niese seemed to me to be a vastly over-rated diva). But all that's just my problem!!

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

I saw a Connolly/ de Niese performance live (my only visit to Glyndebourne - not the first time round, but a revival with much the same cast apart from Sesto and Achilla) and was completely wowed. It was truly entertaining and the 4+ hours raced by. I think the spirit of that production is captured well on the DVD.

I agree about the Copenhagen sound, which didn't encourage me to investigate further. I'd like to have heard more of the MDG/ Petrou recording, which I recall Hugh Canning giving a very positive review to in IRR, apart from one particular blip in terms of one of Cleo's arias.

[verismissimo]

All too gushing for my taste.

[Nick Armstrong]

All too gushing for my taste.

The Glyndebourne production or this BAL? Or maybe both....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Why have the many, many miles of Handelian 'opera' become such revered things?

The man churned them out, re-wrote them, tinkered and re-cast etc. It's just clever musical wallpaper while the audiences talked about life, the universe and their dresses and latest amours.

WHY? I just do not get it.

Evidently!

For some of us (well, at least me!) Handel is the only Great Composer of Great Operas between Monteverdi and Mozart. The fact that he "churned them out" is no more relevant to a discussion of their quality than it is to Shakespeare's plays. (Both lived before the Romantic notion that one had to agonize over a work of Art for years before delivering it to the public with all the pain of having a limb amputated.)

Listen to the arias: the range of psychological states that Handel releases from these simplistic and even risible words is awe-inspiring. The mix of Farce and Tragedy (often simultaneously) that only Music can expose convincingly. The power of the choruses. And, perhaps best of all, the insight into the central characters' inner lives as revealed to the audience in the recitatives that preceed the Arias (and didn't Janet Baker perform these superbly?! Just a infinitissimal change of tone colour and the mood is transformed!)

Glorious Stuff!

Best Wishes.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I enjoyed the programme and Ms Lenton's presentation very much. But then I don't know more than the odd aria from this opera, and probably won't buy any complete version. She obviously had an unusually difficult task with so many permutations of male and female soloists in the same role, transpositions, etc, even before we get to - it seems - hugely different directorial decisions on DVD.

With Handelian opera's slow-moving static stage-pictures, and general lack of dramatic propulsion from the music itself, do boarders prefer to concentrate on the 'abstract' mucsical qualities via CD, or prefer having something to look at on DVD?

In general I'm a 'better pictures in my head' man and buy far more opera CDs than DVDs. But the strings of long da capo arias in Handel's Rinaldo the other night (GTO's production seen in Plymouth: the first complete Handel opera I've seen - live, TV or video) made me think that the mad stage pictures of this production did make the evening pass faster!

[Biffo]

I agree with the previous poster that actually seeing a Handel opera live is preferable to any form of recording. I haven't seen GTO's Rinaldo but greatly enjoyed their Rodelinda. Janet Baker (and the rest of the excellent cast) in Julius Caesar were more enjoyable live than the DVD (which I own), fine though it is. I find it very hard to listen to more than one act of a baroque opera (not just Handel) on CD. I realise that a lot of the psychological and dramatic characterisation - and it is there, Handel's operas are not jut a string of arias - is lost when you listen to individual arias but generally that is what I do.

[Chris Newman]

Why have the many, many miles of Handelian 'opera' become such revered things?

The man churned them out, re-wrote them, tinkered and re-cast etc. It's just clever musical wallpaper while the audiences talked about life, the universe and their dresses and latest amours.

WHY? I just do not get it.

Thinking back to the days when I would sing in public Monteverdi, Purcell, Handel and Mozart were the most pleasurable composers to sing. With very little need to indulge in Can Belto singing they achieved expressiveness through beauty of line. They wrote for the voice whereas JSBach seemed to have written for some inhuman machine. Of modern composers Britten and Tippett were a joy to sing as they recognised the keys to fine singing.

Discounting Tippett and Britten, all the composers mentioned above were regular recyclers of their own (and quite often others' ) material.

[verismissimo]

The Glyndebourne production or this BAL? Or maybe both....

The Bal was too gushing for me. The Glyndebourne was fab. (Though I think DdeN is not particularly special as a singer, but terrific as a performer.)

[Nick Armstrong]

With Handelian opera's slow-moving static stage-pictures, and general lack of dramatic propulsion from the music itself, do boarders prefer to concentrate on the 'abstract' mucsical qualities via CD, or prefer having something to look at on DVD?

Went through an enormous baroque opera phase about 10 - 15 years ago, went to everything I could. The conclusion I came to was that in general I preferred my Handel operas in smaller doses than the full 3-plus hours, and that an act at a time on CD was perfect, when the impact of the arias, psychologically and musically, could really sink in free of what normally seemed like the distraction of performer and director trying to "do" things with them on stage.

On the other hand, I also came to the conclusion that French baroque opera, Rameau in particular, benefits hugely from being seen and heard live - something to do with the ornamentation, I think, which takes on new life when seeming to be (or actually being) improvised live. Rameau etc on disc always seems to have the life force drained from it, relatively-speaking.

There are exceptions to both of course. The Handelian exception that springs to mind is the "Alcina" I got into at the Paris Opéra (last minute return, queued for on an impulse, centre stalls! ) with Renée Fleming and Susan Graham, under William Christie - riveting from start to finish, almost literally breathtaking to look at, stunningly sung (not a Fleming fan, but she was AMAZING that night!): a multi-sensory experience which made nonsense of almost every other Handel production I've ever seen (not least the Glydenbourne one which seemed to me silly, and to trivialise the piece). Some glimpses of that Paris performance in this French TV report: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-UgGtDAHLc

[Flosshilde]

But who won?

[Nick Armstrong]

But who won?

Well, the Copenhagen performance with Scholl et al conducted by Mortensen did... but look at the marketplace price: £94 !!!! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Handel-Giuli...7&sr=8-1-spell

Fortunately, to the rescue comes...

...

Sainsbury's

£14.99 inc delivery!!

http://www.sainsburysentertainment.co.uk/en/Films-TV/DVD/George-Frideric-Handel/Handel-Giulio-Cesare-Mortensen-Concerto-Copenhagen/product.html?product=E10045315&utm_medium=basefeed&utm_source=google

Oh and the Mackerras/Janet Baker one in English came in second

[Flosshilde]

What about a CD version - or did it cover DVDs only? (yes, I know I should listen on iPlayer, but I doubt I'll manage to)

(btw - did you scroll further down the Sainsbury's page to the cast? - 'main vocals - George Friedrich Handel' - was this a live recording? )

[Nick Armstrong]

What about a CD version - or did it cover DVDs only? (yes, I know I should listen on iPlayer, but I doubt I'll manage to)

The Mackerras version I mentioned is a CD. I suspect it will be the one they play at 11am Monday...