BaL 26.11.11 - Mahler: Symphony no. 8

[Barbirollians]

Definitely an " and" .

From what I heard of his first set I don't blame Gergiev for having another go - the Fifth was terrible .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Definitely an " and" .

... we should add Klemperer, too, of course. Remarkable that, with JB and OK on their "books" in the '60s, EMI neglected to record a Mahler cycle with either of them (indeed, IIRC, waited until the '80s to do so).

I don't blame Gergiev from what I heard of his first set I don't blame him for having another go - the Fifth was terrible .

- naughty, but not, IMO, unjust.

[HighlandDougie]

... we should add Klemperer, too, of course. Remarkable that, with JB and OK on their "books" in the '60s, EMI neglected to record a Mahler cycle with either of them (indeed, IIRC, waited until the '80s to do so).


- naughty, but not, IMO, unjust.

If I may be forgiven the pedantry, it would have been difficult for EMI to record a complete Klemperer cycle as OK never conducted the 3rd (he didn't like it very much, according to Peter Heyworth), the 5th (ditto), the 6th (not quite sure why) or the 8th, which, again according to Heyworth, he much admired (he was present at the first performance) but the opportunity simply didn't come up for him to conduct until it was so late in his career that, well, it was too late.

[Barbirollians]

If I may be forgiven the pedantry, it would have been difficult for EMI to record a complete Klemperer cycle as OK never conducted the 3rd (he didn't like it very much, according to Peter Heyworth), the 5th (ditto), the 6th (not quite sure why) or the 8th, which, again according to Heyworth, he much admired (he was present at the first performance) but the opportunity simply didn't come up for him to conduct until it was so late in his career that, well, it was too late.

Rather like Bruno Walter who avoided the 3rd and the 6th to the 8th.

EMI were even more bizarre in what they allowed Klemperer to get away with when he insisted on making those appalling cuts in the finale of Bruckner 8 they should have sent for Barbirolli ( whose 1970 live Eighth is marvellous )

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If I may be forgiven the pedantry, it would have been difficult for EMI to record a complete Klemperer cycle as OK never conducted the 3rd (he didn't like it very much, according to Peter Heyworth), the 5th (ditto), the 6th (not quite sure why) or the 8th, which, again according to Heyworth, he much admired (he was present at the first performance) but the opportunity simply didn't come up for him to conduct until it was so late in his career that, well, it was too late.

Very good points - and not "pedantry" in any negative sense, HighDoug - a "shared cycle" between JB & OK, perhaps? (And the question is rather begged, given Legge's responsibility for the Philharmonia; why did the opportunity "simply not come up for OK to conduct" the Eighth? )

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Rather like Bruno Walter who avoided the 3rd and the 6th to the 8th.

EMI were even more bizarre in what they allowed Klemperer to get away with when he insisted on making those appalling cuts in the finale of Bruckner 8 they should have sent for Barbirolli ( whose 1970 live Eighth is marvellous )

Indeed - and it demonstrates how the power of an "exclusive contract" with the Big recording companies of the time could be a double-edged sword. Had there been the equivalent of a Hansler Classics or CPO - ie a high-quality "smaller" recording company - in the '60s we might at least have had a complete Horenstein Mahler cycle, perhaps?

[jayne lee wilson]

If I may be forgiven the pedantry, it would have been difficult for EMI to record a complete Klemperer cycle as OK never conducted the 3rd (he didn't like it very much, according to Peter Heyworth), the 5th (ditto), the 6th (not quite sure why) or the 8th, which, again according to Heyworth, he much admired (he was present at the first performance) but the opportunity simply didn't come up for him to conduct until it was so late in his career that, well, it was too late.

Working from doubtless imperfect memory "IIRC".... in Conversations with Klemperer didn't the conductor say à propos the 6th that "I don't understand it"? Adding that he found the second subject of the 1st movement (i.e. the "Alma" theme) " highly questionable"....?

Maybe someone who has the book to hand can check...
***

I've not spent much time on Horenstein (or Mahler recently, apart from the Mengelberg 4th), but Pristine have his only extant 5th (Berlin Phil/Edinburgh), and a 9th unavailable elsewhere...

https://www.pristineclassical.com/search?q=horenstein+mahler+NOT+title%3ACD

I haven't heard Andrew Rose's version of the famous RAH 8th but I'd gamble on its sonic superiority to any others...

Excellently informative reviews/essays if you scroll down the individual album pages....

[Barbirollians]

Caught up with the much raved about 1980sTennstedt as it is coupled with the Fourth I was interested in listening to on a GROC . As I really disliked his account of Mahler 3 it has taken me a while to catch up with his Mahler but I understand why Michael Kennedy liked it so much .

It is very different to Solti and Rather small scale but I found it very moving.

[pastoralguy]

I've just finished reading a book called 'From baton to bow' by John Georgiadis, ex leader of the LSO during the Previn and Abbado years.

He tells a lovely story about Solti demanding more and more from the LSO's fiddle section in a Mahler session as they attempted to compete with the huge sound from the brass and lower end instruments. Their attempts were undermined by a recording technician who reckoned the LSO fiddles were not as good as the Academy's since they could make a huge sound! (Obviously forgetting that the Academy was not playing heavy duty Mahler).

Anyway, Solti would insist that when there was an exposed passage for the fiddles they would stand to play it! Eventually, Georgiadis and the section got fed up with this and stood on their chairs at the next exhortation from the maestro. Solti was NOT pleased and was just about to complain when the engineer came over the microphone to say 'That was fantastic!'

And that's how it went out on the record!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

???

Wasn't Solti's Mahler #8 recorded with his Chicago band, pasto?

[pastoralguy]

???

Wasn't Solti's Mahler #8 recorded with his Chicago band, pasto?

I was talking about Solti's Mahler with the LSO in general.

I've played Mahler 8 a couple of times as well as hearing it performed by big names and it's always left me stone cold.

[Barbirollians]

I was talking about Solti's Mahler with the LSO in general.

I've played Mahler 8 a couple of times as well as hearing it performed by big names and it's always left me stone cold.

It still remains my least favourite of his symphonies by some way but much of the Tennstedt I did find moving this afternoon.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

???

Wasn't Solti's Mahler #8 recorded with his Chicago band, pasto?

Although recorded with the CSO, the venue was the Sofiensaal in Vienna.

[Lordgeous]

I've just finished reading a book called 'From baton to bow' by John Georgiadis, ex leader of the LSO during the Previn and Abbado years.

He tells a lovely story about Solti demanding more and more from the LSO's fiddle section in a Mahler session as they attempted to compete with the huge sound from the brass and lower end instruments. Their attempts were undermined by a recording technician who reckoned the LSO fiddles were not as good as the Academy's since they could make a huge sound! (Obviously forgetting that the Academy was not playing heavy duty Mahler).

Anyway, Solti would insist that when there was an exposed passage for the fiddles they would stand to play it! Eventually, Georgiadis and the section got fed up with this and stood on their chairs at the next exhortation from the maestro. Solti was NOT pleased and was just about to complain when the engineer came over the microphone to say 'That was fantastic!'

And that's how it went out on the record!

Me too. Its a good read. He certainly doesn't hold back in his views on conductors!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Although recorded with the CSO, the venue was the Sofiensaal in Vienna.

Well, except for Rene Kollo at one point, of course.