BaL 15.10.11 - Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique

[makropulos]

Many years ago, I recall reading an article in Hi-fi News and Record Review entitled 'Hell's Bells and Hector Berlioz' which examined the different, odd and amusing methods employed both on record and in performance to capture the sound of the bells in the finale. Church bells, tubular bells and even pianos have been employed at one time or another. Anyone remember the BPO/Karajan which used real church bells...and behind which the traffic noise was clearly audible?

SJ could do a BaL on the bells alone!

Yes - the bells alone make quite an interesting topic. Coincidentally I had a fascinating discussion about this very issue while we were both studying the (magnificent) autograph manuscript of the SF in Paris a couple of weeks ago. There's a recording by Immerseel and Anima Aeterna that uses a pair of 1845 Erard pianos for the bells - pianos are specificed by Berlioz as his preferred alternative, so "even" pianos is not at all an extreme solution. The question of bells is complicated by the fact that to date no bells that Berlioz might have known or used in the SF have been found (despite people looking). One theory is that HB may even have expected pianos to be used, since they could produce the deep notes that most sets of bells could not. Some orchestras have specialized sets (the Concertgebouw, for instance, has some fabulous deep bells that they used in the SF at the Proms in 1969), but it's always going to a vexed question.

[PJPJ]

Has anyone here got this one?

[PJPJ]

The fine Berlin/Otterloo version is available

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005CP5O8G/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000E1JOBG&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1895GNVWHFAXYG20JA75

[Chris Newman]

Has anyone here got this one?

No, but I wish I had. Munch's Berlioz Requiem and Ravel Daphnis and Choe are old LP favourites of mine and the CD versions (found in Oxfam) are veryclose to the top of my pile of must be listened to records.

[Chris Newman]

Has anyone here got this one?

No, but I wish I had. Munch's Berlioz Requiem and Ravel Daphnis and Choe are old LP favourites of mine and the CD versions (found in Oxfam) are very close to the top of my pile of must be listened to records.

[Petrushka]

Another vexed question is that of repeats. While it has been pointed out that you can't be led to the scaffold and executed twice (though you can in imagination, of course) I feel short-changed if I don't get the full clutch of repeats in the March to the Scaffold.

[Chris Newman]

Another vexed question is that of repeats. While it has been pointed out that you can't be led to the scaffold and executed twice (though you can in imagination, of course) I feel short-changed if I don't get the full clutch of repeats in the March to the Scaffold.

I like ALL the repeats please. I am a masochist!!! No, seriously, they make sense. As in Dvorak 9.

DUCK!!!

At least Sir Colin and Sir Charles agree.

[Nick Armstrong]

Another aspect of the choice for me is the presence or otherwise of the optional cornet in the ballroom scene. I love it and always think something important is missing if it is omitted. The delectable cornet playing on the Concertgebouw / Davis version is a big plus for me, among a host of of other advantages of that performance

[Chris Newman]

Another aspect of the choice for me is the presence or otherwise of the optional cornet in the ballroom scene. I love it and always think something important is missing if it is omitted. The delectable cornet playing on the Concertgebouw / Davis version is a big plus for me, among a host of of other advantages of that performance

Yes!! Why do they leave it out? Most trumpeters would give their left leg to get the chance to show us that lovely music. It has to be done. If they demand double pay (do Cor Anglais and Saxophones? No!!!!) I would happily pay a few bob extra on my ticket.

[MrGongGong]

It would be a much better experience (IMV of course ) if Berlioz had simply written the music without the ridiculous narrative nonsense that I find gets in the way completely of what is, in parts, a brilliant work.
He didin't write a piece after he separated from Harriet that expressed his "feelings" about that now did he ?

Though more ophicleides can only be a good thing IMV

[Chris Newman]

I love the two Berliozes. There is the composer: the re-inventor of the orchestra and writer of exotic pieces that most of us pay through the nose for the occasional airing AND the brilliant writer that I wish I could be and that I could write such outrageous exaggerations about myself. Poor Hector, hardly made a penny from it. Like you and me . Think, if he lived now he would have made a bomb. Two jobs. I love him, though.

[Alf-Prufrock]

An interesting video

I love the Munch versions. And you can see him rehearsing the Symphonie with the OP here :

Quite wonderful !

[Alf-Prufrock]

And, for an extra, here is the March to the Scaffold, Munch with the BSO this time. You get a glimpse of the bells they used! No ophicleides though!

[Petrushka]

It would be a much better experience (IMV of course ) if Berlioz had simply written the music without the ridiculous narrative nonsense that I find gets in the way completely of what is, in parts, a brilliant work.

Well. it's a point of view, I suppose, but not one I can share. The revolutionary orchestral effects Berlioz uses can only be appreciated to the full if one has that 'ridiculous nonsense' in mind. How wonderfully HB vividly creates the sound of the crowd cheering the executions as our hero is led to the scaffold. You can see in your minds eye the hats thrown in the air and the drop of the guillotine. There is that wonderfully effective moment in the second movement when the dance suddenly stops, the idee fixe theme is heard in sorrow as our hero sees his beloved dancing with someone else but behind it the swirl of the dance continues as if in the background. There are countless other examples.

[Mahlerei]

Echo the sentiments expressed re the Davis/Concertgebouw recording. I also have fond memories of the Mehta/NYPO version, which IIRC was one of Decca's early digitals. Nezet-Seguin in his debut concert with the Berlin Philharmoniker was first-class, but his BIS recording is a shambles. Intrigued to see which one comes out top.