BaL 17.09.11 - Haydn: Symphony no. 100 "Military"

[aeolium]

Very good BaL and Philip was (rightly imo) complimentary about many of the versions being compared. I thought early on it was going to be another Abbado recommendation but he came up with a Haydnesque surprise at the last. Of the versions I didn't know (quite a lot) I liked the excerpts from the Jochum one and the Netherlands CO recording. I don't think I'll be adding to my Beecham and Colin Davis discs though.

[Roehre]

Fascinating discussion.

I'd like to make to quotes, which might confuse as well as clarify:

1. Mozart's symphonies do have basso continuo either figured or intended, up to and including (KV 208+102 = )KV213c (the extended Sinfonia from Il Re Pastore) from 1775.
But Hogwood and Zaslaw point out, that "As these bass-line instruments [i.e. bassoons, cellos, double basses and a harpsichord or organ colla parte] were rarely specified in the scores of the symphonies, except when they had obbligato solo passages, their presence must be deducted from the evidence of sets of parts, treatises, payrolls and the like" (see for this re Haydn's Symphonies Waldhorn's posting no.36)
(Zaslaw, Mozart's symphonies, p513-514. This book is an academic off shoot from the AAM-Hogwood Mozart symphony cycle).

Thus, re Haydn:
2. When Haydn received an honorary doctorate at Oxford, he led a performance of a symphony of his in the sheldonian Theatre from the organ. Morning Herald July 8th 1791, as quoted in Robbins Landon, Haydn: Chronicle and works III, p.89. (The organ here is a small chamber organ). However: the London symphonies don't show a basso continuo, as Waldhorn points out re other symphonies as well.

So, lacking figured bass, or mentioning bass instruments as such, cannot be full proof of a basso-continuo not being performed.

[Nick Armstrong]

Yes, good prog. What it lacked in tension (Abbado ahead of the field from the start, though a bracing last minute nose ahead from Sir Charles made for an interesting finish), it more than made up for in wisdom, variety and general open-minded positiveness. Interesting to hear about the 'swimming pool' acoustic of the Esterhazy Palace, having read Waldhorn's comments about it.

The French "Tribune des Critiques" programme last season covered Haydn 104 and the top vote (which accorded with what I had heard) went to Janssons and the Bavarian Radio Orchestra. It's coupled with No 100, and Robert Philip referred to it briefly. I bought that disc on the strength of the French programme, and love it. The finale of 100 is really spectacular, breathtaking for a live recording really, and rounded off with enthusiastic applause. Not normally a fan of 'big band' Haydn but that's a cracker I think.

[barber olly]

Five minutes ago I posted a comment on this thread and it hasn't appeared. I'll complain to the Host

I said what a well-balanced BaL this was, and hoped it was a sign of things to come this year.

Missed the broadcast, busy with other things, who won and did he ditch the harpsichords?

[Nick Armstrong]

Missed the broadcast, busy with other things, who won and did he ditch the harpsichords?

See my post above - photo finish between Abbado and Mackerras with the latter awarded top spot by a nose. No mention of harpsichords.

[rauschwerk]

Having already Davis, Solti & Bruggen I shall add Norrington who seems to be the only conductor who takes the Allegretto at the speed I think it should go (a speed which Robert Philip clearly thought a bit extreme).

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

Having already Davis, Solti & Bruggen I shall add Norrington who seems to be the only conductor who takes the Allegretto at the speed I think it should go (a speed which Robert Philip clearly thought a bit extreme).

It's a pity that Robert Philip didn't include Norrington's Stuttgart performance - modern instrument HIP and quite superbly done.

[rauschwerk]

It's a pity that Robert Philip didn't include Norrington's Stuttgart performance - modern instrument HIP and quite superbly done.

That sounds tempting.....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

- modern instrument HIP and quite superbly done.

I never really understand the concept (or the point) of "modern instrument HIPP". It ends up being neither one thing nor the other. If I were going to buy a Norrington version, it would be with the London Classical Players.

[visualnickmos]

A very good BaL - but I am quite happy with my Haydn complete symphonies (Brilliant Classics) and my Philips/Davis 2 x double CD sets...
I am not sufficiently well-versed in Haydn to examine various versions and performances.

[Tony Halstead]

It was indeed a very good BAL, but, oh dear ( one of my perpetual gripes), how I wished that Robert Philip had divided his review into two parts, the 1st being the 'modern instrument' recordings, and the 2nd being the 'period instrument' ones.
Mixing the two ( as he did) gave some very uncomfortable 'pitch jolts' ( the period instruments being at a pitch of about half a semitone below modern pitch) giving the generalised effect that the period instrument recordings were in some way 'duller' than their modern equivalents.
In his final analysis I agreed with him but it would have been interesting to have had his verdict on the 'best' of the period instrument versions.

[Nick Armstrong]

... some very uncomfortable 'pitch jolts' ( the period instruments being at a pitch of about half a semitone below modern pitch)

Oooops... I didn't even notice! I guess that's why you are a musician and I am a lawyer

[BBMmk2]

Very good BaL and Philip was (rightly imo) complimentary about many of the versions being compared. I thought early on it was going to be another Abbado recommendation but he came up with a Haydnesque surprise at the last. Of the versions I didn't know (quite a lot) I liked the excerpts from the Jochum one and the Netherlands CO recording. I don't think I'll be adding to my Beecham and Colin Davis discs though.

What version was chosen?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What version was chosen?

Orchestra of St Luke's with Sir Charles Mackerras

[BBMmk2]

How would Sir Charles recording compare with Sir Colin's?