BaL 8.07.23 - Stravinsky: Petrushka

[Mal]

Nagano's 1997 Watford recording with the LSO appears to have dropped out of the catalogue. He used the 1947 revision (though that detail is not mentioned anywhere on the artwork or booklet text that I have). It's a very fine performance and recording, though the Miraculous Mandarin which accompanies it on the CD is somewhat less successful, I feel.

Maybe Richard S. Ginell's Third Ear review killed it?: "Nagano goes nowhere; all the life and dance feeling are sucked away with leisurely tempos, little rhythmic definition and an obsession with refinement, refinement, refinement...".

Listening to the winner in full, while writing this, I have a feeling the same might be said for Chailly (who Ginell doesn't mention in his lengthy review that includes 20 performances.) I find myself craving Stravinsky's own Sony performance of the 1947 version (not 1911 as liner notes say... as Ginell points out... he's very good at pointing out which version each performance is, and which liner notes got it wrong!)

Ginell, like me, is after energy, drive, bite, wit, excitement... For him, alongside Stravinsky, Bernstein gets the nod and so (intruigingly!) does Abbado despite the "inevitable polish". I found Abbado the stand out in the BAL review, simply for "opulent beauty", so if it has "energy, drive, and bite" as well it might be a winner! (Abbado was with the LSO might LSO have dropped Nagano to give Abbado a clear run?)

P.S. Inexcusable that Stravinsky hardly got a mention! That Sony box is very special.

[Bryn]

Maybe Richard S. Ginell's Third Ear review killed it?: "Nagano goes nowhere; all the life and dance feeling are sucked away with leisurely tempos, little rhythmic definition and an obsession with refinement, refinement, refinement...".

Listening to the winner in full, while writing this, I have a feeling the same might be said for Chailly (who Ginell doesn't mention in his lengthy review that includes 20 performances.) I find myself craving Stravinsky's own Sony performance of the 1947 version (not 1911 as liner notes say... as Ginell points out... he's very good at pointing out which version each performance is, and which liner notes got it wrong!)

Ginell, like me, is after energy, drive, bite, wit, excitement... For him, alongside Stravinsky, Bernstein gets the nod and so (intruigingly!) does Abbado despite the "inevitable polish". I found Abbado the stand out in the BAL review, simply for "opulent beauty", so if it has "energy, drive, and bite" as well it might be a winner! (Abbado was with the LSO might LSO have dropped Nagano to give Abbado a clear run?)

P.S. Inexcusable that Stravinsky hardly got a mention! That Sony box is very special.

Sony did finally get around to correcting the citation regarding the version Stravinsky used for the 1960 recording when they released The Complete Columbia Album Collection box. The earlier collection in the black plastic case (later reissued in a very much more compact packaging) had quite a few errors in it, and not just in attributions but in poor editing of some of the recordings, too. That Cross apparently decided we all knew the Stravinsky recording already, and thus excluded it from consideration, was quite ridiculous.

[Pianoman]

Yes having had a bit of a Petrushka binge this weekend, I find myself agreeing with various above comments about slickness, smoothness etc. I dug out the Dutoit, which I've had since the early days of cd, and really bought because he was the only one doing loads of repertoire in good sound, most of it mainstream on the back of his famous Planets. Well, it's OK I suppose, but all seems a mite too safe and polite. I went back to Ancerl's 60s recording and that rawness and edge is there is spades, and it's great to hear that Czech wind and brass so characterful. Yes, the audio quality can't compare (overloads on the trumpets towards the end) and the pianist is a bit hit-and-miss, but you finish it thinking what a great ride it's been.

[Bryn]

I rather wish I hadn't accepted this challenge once I noticed the number of available versions but after several days it's here!

I've decided not to include any 'Petrushka Suite' recordings because I doubt if it will figure in the BaL programme and, surprisingly, there are so many versions I'd still be dong the list at Christmas. The same applies to the Three Pieces for piano. I've also decided against including any transcriptions (the four hands version for piano and others for organ and accordions) on the grounds that the sheer number available will make the listing much too long and would take forever to do.

The decision not to split the list between available versions of the 1911 and 1947 scores is a bit more problematic and one I regret so apologise if anyone wanted it. Many recordings do say which one is used but some don't. Sometimes it's even difficult to tell if it's the complete ballet or the suite that's been recorded! In one case (the Mackerras) it's difficult to tell which orchestra is playing - perhaps someone can clear that one up. Sorry but it's already taken me several days and I'm in awe of EA doing this every week!

I would certainly recommend listening to the Crabb & Draugsvoll arrangement for two accordions, currently in the Warner Igor Stravinsky Edition boxed set.

[Ein Heldenleben]

How might 19th/20th c. Russian classical ballet (of which Petrushka is a part) "open up its parameters" to anything beyond itself, any more than Stravinsky's score might "open up its parameters" by the addition of a Yoruba drumming riff part way through, or perhaps a break of Cuban salsa? For better or worse, classical Russo-French ballet is as fixed as a Bach cantata, or a Wagner music drama.

As for "cultural baggage", it might be just as unhelpful to talk about "cultural baggage" with respect to Petrushka's blackamoor, as it would be to condemn the traditional Spanish festival of 'Moros y Cristianos', medieval mummers' plays or their modern recreation in Birtwistle and Nyman's Down by the Greenwood Side. These are all artefacts of a culture war which has been going on for a millennium, and which won't be stopping anytime soon. And it is as well to be reminded of that, rather than pretend to brush it under the carpet.

"Cultural appropriation" is another contradictory notion, surely? Without appropriation, there is no culture: 'nothing comes from nothing', as somebody once said.

Coming back to these Petrushka recordings, I find myself agreeing with Pulcinella about the Roth recording, all present and correct (and minutely controlled) but nowhere near enough to the music's edge to merit much consideration.

I agree it would be a nonsense to interpolate other music into Stravinsky’s masterpiece. However in Ballet it seems perfectly acceptable to completely junk the choreography and indeed plot elements of the original production. So I don’t see any reason why elements of other dance cultures shouldn’t be used. Isn’t that pretty much what Matthew Bourne does in his (astonishingly popular ) reworking of the classics? I wonder if he’ll ever do the Rite ?

[Pulcinella]

Yes having had a bit of a Petrushka binge this weekend, I find myself agreeing with various above comments about slickness, smoothness etc. I dug out the Dutoit, which I've had since the early days of cd, and really bought because he was the only one doing loads of repertoire in good sound, most of it mainstream on the back of his famous Planets. Well, it's OK I suppose, but all seems a mite too safe and polite. I went back to Ancerl's 60s recording and that rawness and edge is there is spades, and it's great to hear that Czech wind and brass so characterful. Yes, the audio quality can't compare (overloads on the trumpets towards the end) and the pianist is a bit hit-and-miss, but you finish it thinking what a great ride it's been.

London or Montreal?

[Pianoman]

Montreal - forgotten he even did a London one...

[richardfinegold]

Many thanks to Petrushka (the forumist) for introducing this thread so willingly and efficiently.

Yes, he did a stellar job. He learned from a master, EA

[Pulcinella]

Montreal - forgotten he even did a London one...

I don't think I've heard the Montreal one, but I like the London one:

Stravinsky: Petrushka

Tamás Vásáry (piano)
London Symphony Orchestra
Charles Dutoit
Recorded: 1976-04-30
Recording Venue: Henry Wood Hall, London

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7931194--stravinsky-the-firebird-suite-etc

[richardfinegold]

Yes having had a bit of a Petrushka binge this weekend, I find myself agreeing with various above comments about slickness, smoothness etc. I dug out the Dutoit, which I've had since the early days of cd, and really bought because he was the only one doing loads of repertoire in good sound, most of it mainstream on the back of his famous Planets. Well, it's OK I suppose, but all seems a mite too safe and polite. I went back to Ancerl's 60s recording and that rawness and edge is there is spades, and it's great to hear that Czech wind and brass so characterful. Yes, the audio quality can't compare (overloads on the trumpets towards the end) and the pianist is a bit hit-and-miss, but you finish it thinking what a great ride it's been.

Re: Ancerl are you listening to the “Ancerl Gold” remaster that Supraphon put out a few years ago?

[richardfinegold]

Hmm. Maybe the ballet world should open up its parameters even more and learn to integrate art dance traditions of non-caucasian cultures. This does not need to be a case of cultural appropriation, but openly learning from them. That said, the Backamoor character as the villain does come with a considerable baggage of racism about it, a bit like Enyd Blyton's treatment of the golliwog in the Noddy books.

At the risk of derailing the thread, I really don’t get the Cultural Appropriation thing. Cultures have been interacting since the dawn of time. Are we now to never read Virgil because the Romans borrowed their Culture from the Greeks?

[Master Jacques]

I agree it would be a nonsense to interpolate other music into Stravinsky’s masterpiece. However in Ballet it seems perfectly acceptable to completely junk the choreography and indeed plot elements of the original production. So I don’t see any reason why elements of other dance cultures shouldn’t be used. Isn’t that pretty much what Matthew Bourne does in his (astonishingly popular ) reworking of the classics? I wonder if he’ll ever do the Rite ?

I don't think Matthew Bourne does use elements of other world 'dance cultures', per se; though of course he does use modern, popular Anglo-American commercial dance and older Franco-English narrative mime traditions. I love his work - his Prokofiev Cinderella was one of his very best shows, and so I should love to see his take on Petrushka. Difficult to see him being quite so interested in The Rite of Spring, perhaps - I still can't get the TV reconstruction of Nijinsky's original choreography out of my head, because it was so strange, lumpen and powerful ... not like classical dance at all.

The "problem" isolated yesterday in Petrushka (as Jonathan Cross sees it) is that the music itself is infected, so changing the plot to make it acceptable to 21st century Western Cultural mores would only disguise said "problem", not remove it.

[Master Jacques]

Re: Ancerl are you listening to the “Ancerl Gold” remaster that Supraphon put out a few years ago?

I can't speak for Pianoman of course, but personally I eschew Supraphon's 'Ancerl Gold' remaster in favour of their 1988 CD (distributed in Japan), which sounds more natural, less processed, and has more of the vibrant, direct colour of the old LP. It's a marvellous reading, whichever mastering you choose!

[Lordgeous]

I'm not sure I need another version - I have the IS 22 box set and the Tilsion Thomas/Philharmonia - but after the recent BAL I would be none the wiser what to choose. In one way there are so many on CD it's bewildering and I find it hard to believe the reviewer would have listened to every one. In many ways you guys on here are more helpful, but also all different too! I guess the idea that there can be one 'perfect' version is an outdated premis?

[Pianoman]

Re: Ancerl are you listening to the “Ancerl Gold” remaster that Supraphon put out a few years ago?

It's the Ancerl Gold version, which I was always led to believe was the 'best'. It's really not bad, just the odd issue at climaxes, and in fact the Rite of Spring coupling is fine. I have a friend with an earlier incarnation so will try to do a comparison.