BaL 10.06.23 - Prokofiev: Peter and the Wolf

[HighlandDougie]

Written in 2 weeks? Wow! Michael Tippett would probably only have written 14 bars in that time! Excellent BAL reviving many happy memories. I think I too had the Ace of Diamonds LP.

Efrem curtz was, I believe, married to wonderful flautist Elain Schaffer (checkout her Bach Sonatas with George Malcolm). I came to Mahler via his recording of 4th Symphony - the slow movement especially stiill haunting.

Efrem Kurtz was indeed married to Elaine Shaffer. They met when she was principal flautist with the Houston Symphony Orchestra of which he was Principal Conductor at the time. She died, tragically young, in 1973.

Incidentally and recognising that it’s easy to confuse conductors whose names start with K, I think that the Mahler 4th referred to was probably that recorded by Paul Kletzki with the Philharmonia and Emmy Loose in 1957. A stalwart of the HMV Concert Classics catalogue for a while, SXLP 30054 was my introduction to the symphony and the only recording of it I possessed until Horenstein’s CFP release in 1971.

[Master Jacques]

...and yet, as this thread shows, many adults continue to enjoy it if only for the music.

I'm in a sub-class which loathed Peter and the Wolf as a youngster, but love it as an adult (if that's what I've become).

I noted that "original language" narrations were firmly excluded, as not being in the language most listeners understand. I trust that Radio 3 will follow the same course when it comes to BaL's of Fidelio, Carmen and all other operas with spoken dialogue in those pesky foreign tongues.

[Lordgeous]

Efrem Kurtz was indeed married to Elaine Shaffer. They met when she was principal flautist with the Houston Symphony Orchestra of which he was Principal Conductor at the time. She died, tragically young, in 1973.

Incidentally and recognising that it’s easy to confuse conductors whose names start with K, I think that the Mahler 4th referred to was probably that recorded by Paul Kletzki with the Philharmonia and Emmy Loose in 1957. A stalwart of the HMV Concert Classics catalogue for a while, SXLP 30054 was my introduction to the symphony and the only recording of it I possessed until Horenstein’s CFP release in 1971.

Mea Culpa! Yes of course and thanks for correction. Was having a grey moment! As to Schaffer's Bach Sonatas, she died soon after recording them and it was realised that she almost certainly then had only one lung working. Wasn't she also the first woman to hold a post in an American orchestra?

[richardfinegold]

Mea Culpa! Yes of course and thanks for correction. Was having a grey moment! As to Schaffer's Bach Sonatas, she died soon after recording them and it was realised that she almost certainly then had only one lung working. Wasn't she also the first woman to hold a post in an American orchestra?

The CSO had a horn player in the early 1940s that I believe was was the first woman. Name escaping me at present, I think costas or Kostas

[Retune]

I'm in a sub-class which loathed Peter and the Wolf as a youngster, but love it as an adult (if that's what I've become).

I noted that "original language" narrations were firmly excluded, as not being in the language most listeners understand. I trust that Radio 3 will follow the same course when it comes to BaL's of Fidelio, Carmen and all other operas with spoken dialogue in those pesky foreign tongues.

I enjoyed the Baker/NPO/Leppard version as a child, but this is the first time I've listened to any of it for a long time. As an adult, I think I may enjoy the Sophia Loren version...

I wonder if any brave opera production has retained the original language for the music, but reverted to the local language for the dialogue? There are obvious reasons to keep the original sung language, which may well have shaped the music and will be closely associated with it, but perhaps less compelling reasons to stick with it for spoken lines. For live drama, translation is the norm. If I go to (say) an Ibsen production in London, I expect it to be in English rather than with surtitles, but maybe I'm missing something. Most of us probably dislike dubbed movies, which lose half the actors' performance, but I'm less sure there is any particular virtue in watching a foreign documentary with original-language voiceover and subtitles, rather than a version with an English narration track. Peter and the Wolf, intended for children, is one case where the local language is what nearly everyone would want - it would have been a little hard on Kate Molleson's young co-reviewers to ask for their opinions on a Russian version!

[smittims]

Livia Gollancz was principal horn of the Halle Orchestra in the early 1940s.

[Pulcinella]

I enjoyed the Baker/NPO/Leppard version as a child, but this is the first time I've listened to any of it for a long time. As an adult, I think I may enjoy the Sophia Loren version...

I wonder if any brave opera production has retained the original language for the music, but reverted to the local language for the dialogue? There are obvious reasons to keep the original sung language, which may well have shaped the music and will be closely associated with it, but perhaps less compelling reasons to stick with it for spoken lines. For live drama, translation is the norm. If I go to (say) an Ibsen production in London, I expect it to be in English rather than with surtitles, but maybe I'm missing something. Most of us probably dislike dubbed movies, which lose half the actors' performance, but I'm less sure there is any particular virtue in watching a foreign documentary with original-language voiceover and subtitles, rather than a version with an English narration track. Peter and the Wolf, intended for children, is one case where the local language is what nearly everyone would want - it would have been a little hard on Kate Molleson's young co-reviewers to ask for their opinions on a Russian version!

Opera North's recent Ariadne had spoken language in a mixture of English and German, with a bit of Italian too, I think, as it was set in Cinecittà in Rome, but the sung music was in German, if that's what you were wondering. But it seems that you're talking of an opera production of Peter and the Wolf: I wasn't aware that there is anything to be sung (originally in Russian) in it.

[Retune]

But it seems that you're talking of an opera production of Peter and the Wolf: I wasn't aware that there is anything to be sung (originally in Russian) in it.

No, I was responding to the previous post that mentioned operas with spoken dialogue. I was wondering if anyone had staged (e.g.) a German singspiel or a French opéra comique where the spoken dialogue was in English, but the arias and choruses were in the original language.

[LHC]

No, I was responding to the previous post that mentioned operas with spoken dialogue. I was wondering if anyone had staged (e.g.) a German singspiel or a French opéra comique where the spoken dialogue was in English, but the arias and choruses were in the original language.

When Glyndebourne put on Die Fledermaus in 2003 it was sung in German with (extensive) dialogue also in German. However, when Glyndebourne performed the same piece in a semi-staged performance at the Proms that year, all the dialogue was replaced with a narration in English by Simon Callow. As one of the reviewers remarked, "the switches between Callow's chummy narration and the German singing created a disjointed, even distancing effect, the staging resembling a series of vignettes, the music seeming an illustration of the story rather than the means of its telling".

When Die Fledermaus was performed by the Royal Opera in 1984 it was sung in a polyglot mixture of German, French and English, with the dialogue mostly in English (although German and French is sometimes spoken as well). The cast included Kiri te Kanawa, Hermann Prey, Hildegard Heichele and Benjamin Luxon with Placido Domingo conducting. It can still be seen on DVD. Since then I think the Opera House has performed it in English in a not very successful translation by John Mortimer.

I am sure I can also recall reading about a performance of Fidelio which replaced the dialogue with another narration in English, but where the sung text remained in German, but can't recall where or when this was.

[MickyD]

When Glyndebourne put on Die Fledermaus in 2003 it was sung in German with (extensive) dialogue also in German. However, when Glyndebourne performed the same piece in a semi-staged performance at the Proms that year, all the dialogue was replaced with a narration in English by Simon Callow. As one of the reviewers remarked, "the switches between Callow's chummy narration and the German singing created a disjointed, even distancing effect, the staging resembling a series of vignettes, the music seeming an illustration of the story rather than the means of its telling".

When Die Fledermaus was performed by the Royal Opera in 1984 it was sung in a polyglot mixture of German, French and English, with the dialogue mostly in English (although German and French is sometimes spoken as well). The cast included Kiri te Kanawa, Hermann Prey, Hildegard Heichele and Benjamin Luxon with Placido Domingo conducting. It can still be seen on DVD. Since then I think the Opera House has performed it in English in a not very successful translation by John Mortimer.

I am sure I can also recall reading about a performance of Fidelio which replaced the dialogue with another narration in English, but where the sung text remained in German, but can't recall where or when this was.

I had that 1984 Fledermaus recorded off the TV on VHS for ages, then replaced it with the DVD once it came out. It's a wonderful production and to my mind the mixing of languages works very well indeed - above all, everyone seems to be having such a good time. The surprise appearances of Hinge and Bracket and Charles Aznavour in Act 2 also add to the enjoyment. Well worth getting and a lovely way to spend a winter's evening inside.

[Nick Armstrong]

KM and her two assistants were excellent and schoolmaster Andrew was quietly relaxed.

I’ll probably give this one a miss (being abroad, for one thing) but what was going on with these ‘assistants’ - was it a ‘four-fer’ BAL?!

[LHC]

I’ll probably give this one a miss (being abroad, for one thing) but what was going on with these ‘assistants’ - was it a ‘four-fer’ BAL?!

At the end of the BAL, KM said that, as P&TW is aimed at Children, she had checked her final two choices with two young children. Both had enjoyed it, with the youngest deciding to be a wolf for the rest of the day. The elder one had taken it very seriously and confirmed KM's choice of Sting and Abbado.

[Nick Armstrong]

At the end of the BAL, KM said that, as P&TW is aimed at Children, she had checked her final two choices with two young children. Both had enjoyed it, with the youngest deciding to be a wolf for the rest of the day. The elder one had taken it very seriously and confirmed KM's choice of Sting and Abbado.

Oh I see - cute.

I’ve had the Abbado since it was released: instrumentally superb, but I do find the narrator’s attempted improvements, adding contemporary stock/clichéd phrases (like grandfather grumbling “young people nowadays, they’ve got no respect”), rather intrusive and annoying… but that’s probably because the Ace of Clubs LP was firmly imprinted on my brain at an early age…

[Parry1912]

Oh I see - cute.

I’ve had the Abbado since it was released: instrumentally superb, but I do find the narrator’s attempted improvements, adding contemporary stock/clichéd phrases (like grandfather grumbling “young people nowadays, they’ve got no respect”), rather intrusive and annoying… but that’s probably because the Ace of Clubs LP was firmly imprinted on my brain at an early age…

You could always try the French version of the Abbado with Charles Aznavour narrating!

[smittims]

My favourite, also with French narration, is Peter Ustinov/Orch de Paris/Igor Markevitch.