BaL 3.06.23 - Brahms: A German Requiem

[CallMePaul]

Returning to topic, I need to resurrect an old chestnut. Why did Andrew McGregor not inform listeners that the recommended recording (which I agreed with) is download only? This is still a minority format for classical music buyers and the BBC and its reviewers need to realise this!

[RichardB]

The Suite for harp might perhaps suit Richard's other half.

She has played it of course, and Ceremony of Carols too, but I remain unconvinced. She agrees with me about Brahms, by the way. Our main point of disagreement is about Bruckner, but that's another story.

What are the feelings here about JEG's two recordings of the Brahms? I've only heard the second one, which I rather like.

[Bryn]

From not for, Bryn?
Britten is very much a Marmite composer for me (as for that matter is Brahms), but I find some of his works almost unbearable in their intensity that I can only listen to them when I'm feeling strong enough: the third SQ and Billy Budd, to name just two. The War Requiem is (imho) an absolute gem: I try to listen to it on 6 August each year as a tribute (if that's the right word) to those who died in Hiroshima, and am in tears each time I do.

I only ever listen to it, these days, in its role as the soundtrack to Jarman's film.

[Goon525]

Returning to topic, I need to resurrect an old chestnut. Why did Andrew McGregor not inform listeners that the recommended recording (which I agreed with) is download only? This is still a minority format for classical music buyers and the BBC and its reviewers need to realise this!

Do you have recent evidence that download/streaming is a minority format for classical listeners? It might be on this forum, but I think something like 86% of record company revenues are now from streaming. I accept classical %age will be lower, but I suspect it’s fast catching up.

[underthecountertenor]

Klemperer's record is not slow . He kept describing it as classic but then did not explain why it fell by the wayside. The excellent Gardiner also seemed to be overlooked.

He used an excerpt from Gardiner’s live recording and gave reasons for dismissing it.

[Barbirollians]

He used an excerpt from Gardiner’s live recording and gave reasons for dismissing it.

A must have been the loud kettle

[Constantbee]

A most interesting post, thank you! Well done Rutter, for introducing the work with such easy, unassuming depth and lightness.

My own school choir choral revelation was singing (as one of the treble choir of angels) in The Dream of Gerontius with the Hallé under Barbirolli, which permanently franked my English predilections, as you can imagine.

I'm not sure I can agree with you about German being "absolutely crucial" for Brahms's German Requiem. The German text isn't particularly beautiful in itself. I think the polemic point which Brahms makes through his title is not an instruction about the sung language (let alone anything suggesting "Deutsch über alles"!) but one about singing a secular - not sacred - requiem in the vernacular, rather than Latin.

Like all composers of his day, he would have expected - and, I expect, desired - his works to be sung here in our vernacular, and certainly he must have approved the original English translation before its publication. I for one cannot separate the English text in which I got to know "How lovely are thy dwellings fair" from the music it fits like a glove; and I'm not entirely convinced that the essential character of the music is changed by singing it in a language which hardly anybody in the audience can understand.

(This, hot from the news that less than 2000 UK A-level pupils are currently studying German, which seems to me something this country should be very concerned about and ashamed of).

Even worse than last year, then? The 2021-22 data is available in a House of Commons Research Briefing dated 7 September 2022. Of the 8,300 A level entries for modern languages Spanish is the most popular single language with around 8,300 entries (1.3% of all entries), followed by French (around 7,500 entries or 1.2% of entries), and German (around 2,500 entries or 0.4% of entries). The percentages given are the percentages of ALL A level entries not just modern language entries, please note.

It’s even harder for adults to learn the language, too. Outside the OU there are a few distance learning courses for beginners and improvers but few are tried and trusted imho. So, what CAN you do? Well, you could try following the German language texts of choral works like the Brahms Requiem. Songs (Richard Stokes’ ‘Book of Lieder’ contains parallel texts of over 1,000 songs), and operas can also help with memorising grammatical points. Sometimes the title alone is enough to help with recall, for example ‘Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen’: 5 grammatical points in that title alone LOL A bun and an orange for anyone who can tell me what they are

Enjoyed RR very much again this week. Listened to the Bernius in full on RRE last night and liked it a lot. Easy to miss a good recording like that.

[underthecountertenor]

A must have been the loud kettle

I know that feeling!

[Barbirollians]

Been listening to the 1947 Karajan in the Naxos transfer this afternoon - one of those records where the sense of occasion really comes through . One of the three great K recordings - Karajan, Kempe and Klemperer.

[CallMePaul]

Do you have recent evidence that download/streaming is a minority format for classical listeners? It might be on this forum, but I think something like 86% of record company revenues are now from streaming. I accept classical %age will be lower, but I suspect it’s fast catching up.

Last year the MD of Presto appeared on RR on Record Store Day and said that over 70% of his company's sales are hard copy CD. As Presto is the largest specialist classical (and jazz) retailer in the UK I take his figures as representative.

[Retune]

He used an excerpt from Gardiner’s live recording and gave reasons for dismissing it.

I would have liked to have heard the studio version in the comparison - a Penguin Rosette recording back in the day.

[Retune]

Last year the MD of Presto appeared on RR on Record Store Day and said that over 70% of his company's sales are hard copy CD. As Presto is the largest specialist classical (and jazz) retailer in the UK I take his figures as representative.

For CDs vs downloads maybe, but how many are using one of the big streaming subscription services? Presto have only just launched their subscription platform, with a lot of established competition.

[Barbirollians]

I would have liked to have heard the studio version in the comparison - a Penguin Rosette recording back in the day.

Yes that was the one I meant.

[Goon525]

For CDs vs downloads maybe, but how many are using one of the big streaming subscription services? Presto have only just launched their subscription platform, with a lot of established competition.

Exactly. Callmepaul’s quote re Presto entirely irrelevant. Hardly anyone is buying downloads, but billions are streaming.

[Bryn]

Exactly. Callmepaul’s quote re Presto entirely irrelevant. Hardly anyone is buying downloads, but billions are streaming.

Plus, quite a few record labels have their own download operations. BIS has eClassical, for instance. Then there's Hyperion, as mentioned earlier.