BaL 20.05.23 - Mahler: Rückert-Lieder

[Barbirollians]

All that Flora said about the winning GH+Huber recording applies equally, or IMO even more so, to DF-D+Barenboim of which we heard nothing.

Or Hunt/Vignoles . I find her BALs rather infuriating .

[Keraulophone]

Or Hunt/Vignoles . I find her BALs rather infuriating .

Quite.

[Ein Heldenleben]

her choice of recommendation makes sense, on the basis of the rationale that she explained (and I have just made a purchase of this revelatory performance).

however, it is a personal perspective (which, as seasoned listener of this work, I share) that makes no sense as a guide for a newcomer or someone needing a steer as to the possibilities are for a fledgling collection. there should have been 2 recs, 1 for orch and 1 for piano (perhaps also one for male/female vocals).

i thought the interaction between the interlocutors was excellent.

as an aside, I also succumbed to the follow-on venables rvw and lvb pc - an enjoyable but expensive post breakfast saturday!

Yes the colours of piano / baritone v mezzo/orchestra are so contrasting as to make the versions almost different works. A comparison between the two is ridiculous - the projection involved in riding Mahler’s orchestration in a large hall is simply a different type of singing from being accompanied by a piano with half shut lid in a chamber music sized hall. You can’t as a baritone float phrases in the way a Janet Baker can in a Hall with a three second reverb time.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Piano and orchestral versions ought both to have been recommended.

(Would have happened in the past.)

To be fair, she did also recommend Baker and Urmana as orchestral choices.

[Master Jacques]

All true but she is a communicator . I love the rawness and operatic emotion of it all.

Most certainly she is - but here, for once, I fancy repeated listening to Coote would pay reducing dividends. For me. too much of that rawness was uncontrolled, and too much of that emotion was forced. It did indeed sound "operatic" in the negative sense.

[edashtav]

Ballykissangel?

To be fair, she did also recommend Baker and Urmana as orchestral choices.

I thought that Flora Willson was brave to study recordings which used orchestra accompaniment and those with Mahler’s original scoring for piano given BaL’s chronic time restrictions and the need to allow Andrew to wax lyrically. She coped well, displaying enthusiasm and knowledge, whilst maintaining a fine momentum (although she almost gabbled, on occasions).

We can see that her ‘winner’ was a provocative choice but perfectly proper given her initial field.

I find Christian Gerhaher’s singing pretty irresistible and his partnership with his accompanist, Gerold Huber, is a match made in Elysium.

[Wolfram]

The orchestral and piano versions are almost two different works and as such the task to deal fairly with both of them within the given time frame was too great an ask. For instance, I have been listening to the DF-D/Barenboim version this week and, while I would not argue with the choice of Gerhaher and Huber over them, it still would have been nice to have had heard a direct comparison. Also I was more taken with Alice Coote than others are here, but as soon as the reviewer dismissed the recording on the grounds of suspect orchestral playing all I could think of was for God’s sake play an example of this dodgy playing so we can appreciate what it is you are saying. Very frustrating, but I suppose that there aren’t enough versions with piano to justify making two features out of it as they did once with Pictures at an Exhibition. But if they had made two programmes out of it then there would have been time to include some of the recordings with only three or four of the songs. Some of which, as we all know, are absolute giants of recording history.

By the way, I saw Gerhaher last night at opening of the Royal Opera’s Wozzeck, and he was magnificent.

[Barbirollians]

Yes the colours of piano / baritone v mezzo/orchestra are so contrasting as to make the versions almost different works. A comparison between the two is ridiculous - the projection involved in riding Mahler’s orchestration in a large hall is simply a different type of singing from being accompanied by a piano with half shut lid in a chamber music sized hall. You can’t as a baritone float phrases in the way a Janet Baker can in a Hall with a three second reverb time.

It was interesting she was dismissive of Gerhaher's version with Nagano . It was partly Nagano but also it seems that she did not feel Gerhaher could get to the heart of the music riding the orchestra.

In his collection in Gramophone which Baker/Barbirolli won in 2013 ( and Gerhaher/Huber was up there too ) was the winner - he confined himself to the orchestral songs Mahler had orchestrated as his bottom line .

The problem with that and with Flora Willson's insistence on all five is that you lose Ferrier/Walter - who playing them this afternoon is simply in a league of her own in Um Mitternacht - even Baker and Gerhaher sound underpowered . Maybe with both Ferrier and Hunt Lieberson their early deaths make their singing of Ich bin Der Welt abandon gekommen almost unbearably moving.

[edashtav]

[…]
The problem with that and with Flora Willson's insistence on all five is that you lose Ferrier/Walter - who playing them this afternoon is simply in a league of her own in Um Mitternacht - even Baker and Gerhaher sound underpowered . Maybe with both Ferrier and Hunt Lieberson their early deaths make their singing of Ich bin Der Welt abandon gekommen almost unbearably moving.

I agree!

[eighthobstruction]

....lovely programme....for me -excellent Saturday morning hour....I echo Wolfram's first line...

[AlanE]

Not mentioned so far, I think, is a recording on blu ray by Magdalena Kozena with Abbado and the Lucerne Festival Orchestra (supplemented by the 3rd and 4th Symphonies). It really is a most affecting performance, greatly enhanced by the visual evidence of the commitment of all performers; Kozena herself is wonderfully expressive. Does Record Review have a policy of ignoring video recordings, which would be rather odd considering their potentially superior sound quality in blu ray?

[richardfinegold]

Not mentioned so far, I think, is a recording on blu ray by Magdalena Kozena with Abbado and the Lucerne Festival Orchestra (supplemented by the 3rd and 4th Symphonies). It really is a most affecting performance, greatly enhanced by the visual evidence of the commitment of all performers; Kozena herself is wonderfully expressive. Does Record Review have a policy of ignoring video recordings, which would be rather odd considering their potentially superior sound quality in blu ray?

I have that Blu Ray. The performance is one that I had acquired of the Rucker’s Lieder was a filler on disc for the symphonies. I had thought these performances had also been released eventually on CD as well.

[Bryn]

I have that Blu Ray. The performance is one that I had acquired of the Rucker’s Lieder was a filler on disc for the symphonies. I had thought these performances had also been released eventually on CD as well.

I have them in this set (apparently no longer available):



(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/...AC_SL1024_.jpg)

Amazon also refers to a CD version with the 4th Symphony (but at a highly inflated price) which turns out to be a DVD, not a CD.

[Pulcinella]

What's the
Magdalena Kožená (mezzo-soprano), Berliner Philharmoniker, Sir Simon Rattle
version like?

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8006757--magdalena-kozena-love-and-longing

[HighlandDougie]

My discovery in HK of a new-to-me record shop included a number of Esoteric SACDs (Japanese re-mastering at its very considerable and respectful best), among which were the Bruno Walter/Kathleen Ferrier/Julius Patzak "Das Lied" plus the three Rückert Lieder. The remastered "Um Mitternacht" is, simply, wonderful. A performance which is hors concours and where the exigencies of the mono recording have been mitigated as best as is possible.