BaL 1.04.23 - Rachmaninov: Symphonic Dances

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  • jayne lee wilson
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 10711

    #76


    Excellent show today, which, given the unique and unignorable expressive and orchestral qualities and contrasts of Svetlanov and Kondrashin, inevitably became to some extent "The Russians v The Rest" (including the Russians in The West, i.e Petrenko, Ashkenazy, etc.) but was very fair in its qualified praise for such as Ashkenazy and Previn (describing both as "classics"), Petrenko, and especially Rattle in Berlin, which latter Marina was obviously fond of. Sounds pretty good to me too, on Qobuz at 24/96: poetic and atmospheric.

    I found her reflections about the emotional and musical background very engaging and wittily expressed (“vodka tears” ), and of course I'm pleased at her conclusions, as I feel similarly myself (see my earlier posts here).
    Once you have Svetlanov and Kondrashin in your ear and your pulsing blood, nothing will quite match up; or be quite the same again. (I feel the same about Russian recordings of Tchaikovsky and DSCH too (at which point Rozhdestvensky also comes into he mix…did he ever record the Dances? I can't find one; you imagine he would be just the dreaming, grimly cartoonish muse for them)).

    But the various Melodiyas aren't beyond the pale of sonic tolerances on a reasonably balanced replay system, not at all; the later the remaster the better the sound of course, but if you still shun them, then Under Western Ears or Batons, there is the stunning P-Järvi - or of course Jansons, which, given his three excellent recordings (!) I'm surprised was passed over. Go for the glorious-sounding Herkulesaal live taping of BRSO-Klassik c/w The Bells (with the lovely turquoise cover art); you'll be well rewarded.

    ****

    The 2CD O. de Paris/P-Jarvi includes
    The Rock Op.7, very hauntingly done, sounding more like a precursor to the Isle of the Dead than any other recording I’ve heard: it changed my view of the piece. (The G. quote on Presto refers to the 3rd Symphony specifically, by the way; Gutman was unreservedly positive about the dances.)
    The Erato sound is exceptional. (If you know P-Jarvi's very underrated but strikingly original Sibelius Cycle done with the same orchestra you'll know what I mean: similarly gorgeous sound picture, the soundstage wide, deep, warm and clear. Do seek this set out: I've just returned to it in the light of the Rachmaninov recordings; strikingly individual, as this artist so often is, whether in Paris, Frankfurt, Bremen or Estonia).

    As for the various Svetlanovs (again), I don't share Marina's reservations about "audience noise" on the live 1986 Regis/Melodiya issue: I've played this CD several times over the week at fairly high levels, and it really isn't obtrusive. Availability of the Svetlanov physical product being difficult I'd go for this one if you can find it. The Japanese Canyon/Exton is still around, on the Exton 4-CD set. Compelling, if more of a slow-burner perhaps, as (despite timing differences) it has the classic Svetlanov approach, sonic character and the best sound of all by some margin, but lacks some of that live excitement and drama of the 1986 recording or the earlier 1973 Melodiya.
    The latter has the edgiest echt-Melodiya sound of the three, but is still vividly listenable especially on the
    Anthology of Russian Symphonic Music transfer on Qobuz lossless. Noticably better sound than on the BaL excerpts.
    Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 02-04-23, 20:35.

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    • Mal
      Full Member
      • Dec 2016
      • 892

      #77
      I had difficulty finding the winner on spotify - eventually found it by searching for USSR rather than Svetlanov(!)



      ... the first few minutes sounded "OK" sound wise... "wonderful" art wise... I did hear a cough so it must be the live perfomance (audience not that obtrusive, as Jayne says, shouldn't be a problem...)!

      Spotify information very limited... I can't even see the publisher... a quick Google search didn't help much... The closest to it (same programme, different cover.):



      Can anyone provide further details?

      Comment

      • Mal
        Full Member
        • Dec 2016
        • 892

        #78
        Originally posted by visualnickmos View Post
        [Orchestre de Paris/Järvi] Equally obscure, in terms of trying to find it!
        Yes, I had to *not* include "symphonic dances" in the search before Spotify found it!

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        • RobP
          Full Member
          • Dec 2020
          • 66

          #79
          Just saw this. Marston released an astonishing 3CD set of Rachmaninov playing the Dances for friends, recorded, probably covertly, at Ormandy's home, coupled with Mitropoulos' version of the work and other works conducted by Stokowski and Ormandy etc.. Once heard you will never hear the work in the same way again and it's hardly surprising so many rate him the 20the century's greatest pianist, this is piano playing off the scale.

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          • Ein Heldenleben
            Full Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 6783

            #80
            Originally posted by RobP View Post
            Just saw this. Marston released an astonishing 3CD set of Rachmaninov playing the Dances for friends, recorded, probably covertly, at Ormandy's home, coupled with Mitropoulos' version of the work and other works conducted by Stokowski and Ormandy etc.. Once heard you will never hear the work in the same way again and it's hardly surprising so many rate him the 20the century's greatest pianist, this is piano playing off the scale.
            Do you have a link to it ? I think I have most of Rachmaninov’s piano recordings but not this one.

            Comment

            • Ein Heldenleben
              Full Member
              • Apr 2014
              • 6783

              #81
              Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
              Do you have a link to it ? I think I have most of Rachmaninov’s piano recordings but not this one.
              Incidentally there was an interesting Music Matters on Rachmaninov’s summer residence in Lake Lucerne very much enhanced by Boris Giltburg’s playing of the Steinway given to SR on his 60th birthday. It didn’t contain any information unfamiliar to those who’ve read much on the composer though.

              Comment

              • vinteuil
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 12832

                #82
                Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                Do you have a link to it ? I think I have most of Rachmaninov’s piano recordings but not this one.
                Home page of Marston Records. New release, promotions, and the latest information of the company.



                .

                Comment

                • Cockney Sparrow
                  Full Member
                  • Jan 2014
                  • 2284

                  #83
                  Originally posted by Mal View Post
                  I had difficulty finding the winner on spotify - eventually found it by searching for USSR rather than Svetlanov(!)



                  ... the first few minutes sounded "OK" sound wise... "wonderful" art wise... I did hear a cough so it must be the live perfomance (audience not that obtrusive, as Jayne says, shouldn't be a problem...)!

                  Spotify information very limited... I can't even see the publisher... a quick Google search didn't help much... The closest to it (same programme, different cover.):



                  Can anyone provide further details?
                  I have the Anthology Of Russian Symphonic Music set and the recording there, it says, was in “1973”, in the Great Hall of the Moscow Music Conservatory. Timings 12:38 -10:35 - 13:53. (The Set is a tribute to Svetlanov, so I presume the recording is seen as one worthy of the regard in which it holds him).

                  (Svetlanov first registered with me when I went to a performance of D.o.Gerontius (Janet Baker as the Angel…..) at the RFH with (probably) the Philharmonia. Svetlanov had complete mastery of the work).

                  Comment

                  • Barbirollians
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 11687

                    #84
                    Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post
                    I have the Anthology Of Russian Symphonic Music set and the recording there, it says, was in “1973”, in the Great Hall of the Moscow Music Conservatory. Timings 12:38 -10:35 - 13:53. (The Set is a tribute to Svetlanov, so I presume the recording is seen as one worthy of the regard in which it holds him).

                    (Svetlanov first registered with me when I went to a performance of D.o.Gerontius (Janet Baker as the Angel…..) at the RFH with (probably) the Philharmonia. Svetlanov had complete mastery of the work).
                    I have to say i am rather reluctant to buy Melodiya records since the invasion of Ukraine. I have no idea who owns them now but assuming still based in Russia and that Putin may get his hands on if not their profits- taxes paid by them.

                    Comment

                    • Cockney Sparrow
                      Full Member
                      • Jan 2014
                      • 2284

                      #85
                      Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
                      I have to say i am rather reluctant to buy Melodiya records since the invasion of Ukraine. I have no idea who owns them now but assuming still based in Russia and that Putin may get his hands on if not their profits- taxes paid by them.
                      Purchasing was not a moral compromise in the context you describe for me, as it was before the aggression. Some time ago I read a news report that Melodiya's Building (I think in Moscow) was to be sold/appropriated/stolen for its great property value and the impression given was that the recording archive and operation was of no importance and under threat. At about that time, the Melodiya Label disappeared from Naxos Music Library (streaming) .

                      I surmise the current operation is a re-launch, maybe under a new ownership entity but I know no more - nor the percentage of any take raked off by Putin's regime.

                      Comment

                      • smittims
                        Full Member
                        • Aug 2022
                        • 4152

                        #86
                        Hi Cockney Sparrow, I was at that 'Gerontius' performance (with Ronald Dowd too I think) and thought it wonderful. I knew Svetlanov's Elgar from his HMV/Melodiya LP of the Second Symphony with the USSR Symphony Orchestra. I wish I'd kept my copy.

                        A few years ago Melodiya issued a CD of 'Gerontius' conducted by Svetlanov in Moscow in 1983 with Arthur Davies, Felicity Palmer and Norman Bailey, and , perhaps surprisingly, the LSO chorus, trained by Richard Hickox, and again the USSR S.O.

                        Comment

                        • Bryn
                          Banned
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 24688

                          #87
                          Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post
                          Purchasing was not a moral compromise in the context you describe for me, as it was before the aggression. Some time ago I read a news report that Melodiya's Building (I think in Moscow) was to be sold/appropriated/stolen for its great property value and the impression given was that the recording archive and operation was of no importance and under threat. At about that time, the Melodiya Label disappeared from Naxos Music Library (streaming) .

                          I surmise the current operation is a re-launch, maybe under a new ownership entity but I know no more - nor the percentage of any take raked off by Putin's regime.
                          I can't see Putin and co. benefitting that much when recordings such as the complete Shostakovich Symphonies + Violin Concerto No. 2, The Execution of Stepan Razin, etc. are available for download in lossless format for under £18.

                          Comment

                          • gradus
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 5609

                            #88
                            No mention of Jurowski/LPO but I think the performance brilliantly played and well worth hearing when auditioning modern recordings - like Jaarvi it was recorded live.

                            Comment

                            • RobP
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2020
                              • 66

                              #89
                              Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                              Do you have a link to it ? I think I have most of Rachmaninov’s piano recordings but not this one.
                              Home page of Marston Records. New release, promotions, and the latest information of the company.


                              It's also worth remembering that the Kondrashin actually sounds superb on LP and Bob Witrak's DSD128 version taken from Russian master-tapes

                              Title: Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances, Op. 45 Artist(s): Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Kiril Kondrashin Recording Info: Transferred from a 15ips 2-track tape Recorded 1963 by Meloydia Records

                              Comment

                              • Barbirollians
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 11687

                                #90
                                Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                                I can't see Putin and co. benefitting that much when recordings such as the complete Shostakovich Symphonies + Violin Concerto No. 2, The Execution of Stepan Razin, etc. are available for download in lossless format for under £18.
                                Well if the revolting crypto Tsar Putin gets hold of 5p of my money they will be too much for me.

                                Comment

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