BaL 1.04.23 - Rachmaninov: Symphonic Dances

[Maclintick]

Not so. The opening performance was the RCOA/Ashkenazy - and Previn was played at least once. I rather enjoyed this BaL - and have found a reasonably priced copy of the Svetlanov set on eBay.

Agreed. M F-W's always insightful contributions were, as usual, despite her impressive academic credentials, presented engagingly & for wide range of listeners. Ormandy's absence from consideration may possibly be explained by his coolness towards a piece which didn't share the lush romantic idiom of the symphonies.

[Master Jacques]

Agreed. M F-W's always insightful contributions were, as usual, despite her impressive academic credentials, presented engagingly & for wide range of listeners. Ormandy's absence from consideration may possibly be explained by his coolness towards a piece which didn't share the lush romantic idiom of the symphonies.

Whereas she used to be (for me) towards the bottom of the pack, I think this is one of those rare examples where the 'Twofer' format has helped: AM gently steers MFW into making clearer explanations as to why she prefers this or that approach, which (I quite agree) makes for more engaging and insightful listening.

I also think, however, that this morning she had a tendency to focus on imagistic-biographical content in the work, at the expense of the crucial second word of its title. We too easily forgot here that these three movements are dances as well as symphonic: that's where the comparative lightness of a Previn or Ashkenazy scores over the heavier, traditional "Russian" approach.

For what it is worth (not much, probably) I have an old Goossens / LSO CD of the work which captures (for me) this dancing quality, at least as well as any other I've heard on disc. I heard Kurt Sanderling doing it decades ago in the concert hall, and nothing since has matched him!

[jonfan]

M F-W's always insightful contributions were, as usual, despite her impressive academic credentials, presented engagingly & for wide range of listeners.

Are you suggesting the more impressive a person's academic credentials are, they become an impediment to communication? A bit harsh if that's the case.

[Darloboy]

I missed the very start but that was a highly predictable BAL - no mention of Ormandy,Previn ,Ashkenazy ,Jansons at all. For all MFW’s knowledge it was an example of how twofers have largely ruined BAL.

Agreed, although she did play an extract from Ashkenazy at the outset just to dismiss it. And given that she mentioned the recording of Rachmaninoff's guidance for Ormandy, she could at least have explained why she wasn't considering Ormandy's actual recording.

To be honest, Frolova-Walker's prejudice towards Russian recordings is just getting tedious. You know beforehand that she's going to dismiss all of the Western recordings and pick an obscure (and barely available) Soviet recording with tinny sound from the 1970s.

[Maclintick]

Are you suggesting the more impressive a person's academic credentials are, they become an impediment to communication? A bit harsh if that's the case.

Not always, but sometimes on BAL I've felt that to be the case. It's a radio programme, not a tutorial.

[HighlandDougie]

To be honest, Frolova-Walker's prejudice towards Russian recordings is just getting tedious. You know beforehand that she's going to dismiss all of the Western recordings and pick an obscure (and barely available) Soviet recording with tinny sound from the 1970s.

Point taken, although I seem to remember that her recommendation for Prokofiev's 5th was Andrew Litton (or maybe that should be Littonovich) with the famous Karajanski being somewhere in the mix.

[smittims]

I'm a Goossens fan , MasterJaques. His 'Scheherazade' (also LSO) is pretty good too.

[Wolfram]

Point taken, although I seem to remember that her recommendation for Prokofiev's 5th was Andrew Litton (or maybe that should be Littonovich) with the famous Karajanski being somewhere in the mix.

She also chose Karajan for the Tchaikovsky 6th. Listening to this BaL this morning has increased my understanding and appreciation of this work immeasurably. I was most taken by Kondrashin, unfortunately the only issue is that the all reasonably priced copies on the various sites have all disappeared. My fault for dithering.

[Master Jacques]

I'm a Goossens fan , Master Jacques. His 'Scheherazade' (also LSO) is pretty good too.

I'm glad I'm not alone! I don't know his Scheherazade, though, and must correct that.

[Petrushka]

I'm a Goossens fan , MasterJaques. His 'Scheherazade' (also LSO) is pretty good too.

So is his Rite of Spring, again with the LSO. Slower than we are used to today, coming in at around 37 mins, but the 1959 recording packs a considerable punch with a bass drum that will leave holes in your wall.

[Master Jacques]

So is his Rite of Spring, again with the LSO. Slower than we are used to today, coming in at around 37 mins, but the 1959 recording packs a considerable punch with a bass drum that will leave holes in your wall.

Well put. I sometimes wonder if it's Goossens' rather odd, later private life which has seen him confined to the musical dustbin? His recordings certainly can still grab us by the collar.

[Maclintick]

You know beforehand that she's going to dismiss all of the Western recordings and pick an obscure (and barely available) Soviet recording with tinny sound from the 1970s.

Your point contains more than a grain of truth, as I recall that she chose a relatively obscure "Soviet recording with tinny sound from the 1970s" when surveying the available versions of Prokofiev PC3 (Krainev, IIRC?). In M F-W's defence I'd point out that in her summing up she gave more than a nod to Orchestre de Paris/Järvi for those wanting an excellent version in modern sound -- highly-rated by Rob Cowan & our own JLW, incidentally.

[visualnickmos]

Your point contains more than a grain of truth, as I recall that she chose a relatively obscure "Soviet recording with tinny sound from the 1970s" when surveying the available versions of Prokofiev PC3 (Krainev, IIRC?). In M F-W's defence I'd point out that in her summing up she gave more than a nod to Orchestre de Paris/Järvi for those wanting an excellent version in modern sound -- highly-rated by Rob Cowan & our own JLW, incidentally.

Equally obscure, in terms of trying to find it!

[Maclintick]

Equally obscure, in terms of trying to find it!

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8056906--rachmaninov-symphony-no-3

[jayne lee wilson]

She also chose Karajan for the Tchaikovsky 6th. Listening to this BaL this morning has increased my understanding and appreciation of this work immeasurably. I was most taken by Kondrashin, unfortunately the only issue is that the all reasonably priced copies on the various sites have all disappeared. My fault for dithering.

Some in France, though I haven't heard this earlier remaster.....

https://www.amazon.fr/Danses-Symphoniques-Cloches-anglais-Rachmaninov/dp/B000003ETI/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2XDJNJIPICF37&keywords=rachmaninov+melodiya+kondrashin&qid=1680383455&refinements=p_n_binding_browse-bin%3A381042011&rnid=381035011&s=music&sprefix=rachmaninov+melodiya+kondrashin%2Caps%2C70&sr=1-1

More to say on this excellent show later; Marina was very fair and precise in her observations, and clear about her own tastes........
(BTW, none of the Svetlanov recordings are "tinny", though of course the 1986 and 1995 vintages are more natural and realistic. And despite the narrow soundstage, the 2005 Kondrashin Remaster is pretty good for a 1963 Melodiya too...).