BaL 1.04.23 - Rachmaninov: Symphonic Dances

[Mal]

I bought the Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw when it first appeared, it was an early digital recording star that still sounds pretty good and was coupled with a fine performance of the Isle of the Dead too...

I have it in the three CD box set, and agree with your estimation. The other performances are also very good (especially symphonies 1 & 2...) Box and booklet are well put together - with translation for "the bells"... and the price is reasonable! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rachmaninov.../dp/B0000042HY

[Barbirollians]

I have it in the three CD box set, and agree with your estimation. The other performances are also very good (especially symphonies 1 & 2...) Box and booklet are well put together - with translation for "the bells"... and the price is reasonable! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rachmaninov.../dp/B0000042HY

Its a very good set but the Symphony 2 has always seemed a bit too indulgent to me after the LSO/Previn which is just as gorgeous but with more energy.

[Barbirollians]

I find the Previn is available secondhand on CD for £1.91 .

[Mal]

Kondrashin... for me...

And smittims... and Rob Cowan... (in his Guinness 1000...) This is looking like a must listen...

[Barbirollians]

And smittims... and Rob Cowan... (in his Guinness 1000...) This is looking like a must listen...

Oddly,Cowan appears to have ignored Petrenko altogether in his survey. Choosing Paavo Jarvi - a conductor whose work generally does not thrill me .

[Barbirollians]

In 1994 Michael Stewart chose Ashkenazy with Previn and St Petersburg Jansons joint second .

[smittims]

Yes indeed, Mal. I still have my copy of ASD 2488 bought in January 1969, with its lovely blue cover and the 'Three Russian Songs' op. 41 as a fill-up. It still sounds very well.

[jayne lee wilson]

And smittims... and Rob Cowan... (in his Guinness 1000...) This is looking like a must listen...

Some selective quotation from JLW goin' on in your #49 there..!.. see #43 for context - OK, yes, Kondrashin and Svetlanov are essential listening but.....

...now it would be....
Paavo Järvi
and
Orchestre de Paris
For Me!

It really is stunning, get a listen anyway you can.... I hope Marina F-W considers it as she usually does a good job, and writes well and wittily for Gramophone too...

Incidentally, Cowan's other three 4/2019 Collection recommendations were: Mitropoulos (1942, whose interpretation Rachmaninov preferred to Ormandy), Svetlanov Live 1986 on Regis (a great choice, for anyone who finds the Pony Canyon one too far-flung) , and.... WDR/Bychkov (Profil 2005), which he felt emphasised the darker side of the work. I must seek that one out at some point too.
I'm still puzzling over the 2005 Melodiya remaster sound on the 1963 KK; is it wide mono or narrow stereo? Very exciting either way, more direct than Svetlanov if more distanced, (though still thrillingly vivid) acoustically. There is a later live KK Concertgebouw one I haven't revisited. Embarrass de richesses here...

[Darloboy]

Previous BaL choices:

David Nice (Feb 95): Neeme Järvi + Ormandy as budget choice
Martin Cotton (Jan 01): Concg/Ashkenazy + Ormandy as historic choice

[Mal]

Returning to the first Ashkenazy ... with RCOA, ... I was disappointed at how strict and straitlaced it felt; not much rubato or expressive freedom here, for all the inevitable technical excellence of the playing; coolly brusque through an undersold Valse Triste. His RCOA finale is brilliantly fast and virtuosic of course, but still tends to rigidity and can feel rushed (in comparison at least).

Having just listened to this piece again, I'm also a bit disappointed with it. Did Rob Cowan not even mention Kondrashin in 2019? His Guinness 1000 guide came out in 1997... I guess he's allowed to change his mind in 20 years, but you'd think he'd at least give his previous top recommendation a mention. In the Guinness guide he says it's "the beefiest symphonic dances around, with impressive weight in the outer pieces, a sweeping account the second [waltz] and due recognition of Rachmaninov's melancholic muse... impact to spare".

"Impact" and "beefiness" are what I found greatly lacking with Ashkenazy, however elegant the playing. For example, the waltz is very slow & rather tedious. OK it needs to be melancholy, but that doesn't mean it can't sweep you along and be exciting as well. It should be the melancholy of a last dance in the Winter Palace with the revolution exploding outside, not the melancholy of a pensioners' afternoon tea dance in Bromley.

[Maclintick]

Incidentally, Cowan's other three 4/2019 Collection recommendations were: Mitropoulos (1942, whose interpretation Rachmaninov preferred to Ormandy)...

Rachmaninov is alleged to have told Mitropoulos that the first movt Non Allegro marking was wrong. Intriguingly, it wasn't recorded whether this represented the composer's second thoughts, having heard the Philadelphia première under Ormandy, or an actual typo in the published edition. Whatever, I always enjoy Marina F-W, & hope she'll play an excerpt from NYPO/Mitropoulos.

[Barbirollians]

Hardly a surprise that Svetlanov appears to be her favourite.

[Barbirollians]

Hardly a surprise that Svetlanov appears to be her favourite.

I missed the very start but that was a highly predictable BAL - no mention of Ormandy,Previn ,Ashkenazy ,Jansons at all. For all MFW’s knowledge it was an example of how twofers have largely ruined BAL.

[HighlandDougie]

I missed the very start but that was a highly predictable BAL - no mention of Ormandy,Previn ,Ashkenazy ,Jansons at all. For all MFW’s knowledge it was an example of how twofers have largely ruined BAL.

Not so. The opening performance was the RCOA/Ashkenazy - and Previn was played at least once. I rather enjoyed this BaL - and have found a reasonably priced copy of the Svetlanov set on eBay.

[Mal]

I missed the very start but that was a highly predictable BAL - no mention of Ormandy,Previn ,Ashkenazy ,Jansons at all. For all MFW’s knowledge it was an example of how twofers have largely ruined BAL.

Ashkenazy was first up, Previn was on third. OK, they were mainly there to show how much more exciting the Russians were, but great start I thought. Not to be missed. And overall, I thought this was an excellent BAL. Andrew was rather superfluous to the proceedings, just a little Sir Echo agreeing with the excellent Marina Frolova-Walker, but at least he kept his responses short. So not ruined, just a few minutes wasted.