BaL 1.04.23 - Rachmaninov: Symphonic Dances

[jayne lee wilson]

Rubato as wide as the Volga indeed! Svetlanov's late Rachmaninov recordings are something special! But seem to have vanished apart from Amazon with the set costing 50notes and seven more for delivery late April!

The Japanese Exton set is the one to get if you can afford it. Back then when I was investigating all this I ordered some of the Warners transfers but found them distinctly inferior in sound compared to the Pony Canyons I had; I sent the Warners back and made the effort to complete with the Pony Canyons instead, from wherever in The World I could get them. They are wonderful, but I'd trust the equally SQ-focussed Exton to match them, as they did with their epic Svetlanov Scriabin Cycle.

[smittims]

Yes, Jayne, 'La Mer' is a very French symphony. It's in three movements, it has a a slow introduction and it's written in cyclic form. I'm sure if Debussy ad called it 'Symphonie' no-one would have cavilled as they did , saying it wasn't like the sea.

Another symphony in all but name is Bartok's awkwardly-titled 'Music for strings, percussion and celesta' (...and pianoforte and harp! I want to shout) .

[gurnemanz]

I bought the Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw when it first appeared, it was an early digital recording star that still sounds pretty good and was coupled with a fine performance of the Isle of the Dead too. I also have Argerich/Economou, I wonder whether the 2 piano version will be mentioned.

With the excellent Marina Frolova-Walker so I will definitely be listening.

Ashkenazy came out on top in this BBC mag survey - https://www.classical-music.com/feat...phonic-dances/

The piano version is definitely worth hearing and for fans of the work probably essential listening for the different perspective and additional insights and sidelights it offers. There's a good performance from Julian Thurber and Ingryd Thorson on the avove-mentioned Brilliant Classics Rach Edition.

The two-piano version actually came first. I discovered from the notes to the Hyperion recording that his project to record the Symphonic Dances with Horowitz was unfortunately and bafflingly rejected by RCA.

[richardfinegold]

Heard this in concert a few weeks ago. The weak spot for me is always the final movement, which before the climactic shootout between Dias Irae and Orthodox Chant seems to get stuck in the deep mud of nostalgia and sentiment. The Reference Recording that Jlw referenced is the one that I played before the concert, but it would be interesting to hear Svetlanov while we await Roth and Les Sicles

[MickyD]

Heard this in concert a few weeks ago. The weak spot for me is always the final movement, which before the climactic shootout between Dias Irae and Orthodox Chant seems to get stuck in the deep mud of nostalgia and sentiment. The Reference Recording that Jlw referenced is the one that I played before the concert, but it would be interesting to hear Svetlanov while we await Roth and Les Sicles

Oh, is it definite that Roth and Les Siècles are going to record this? That would be very interesting. Up to now I also have the Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw version and have always been very happy with it. It was thanks to that disc that I discovered The Isle of the Dead - what a fantastic piece that is.

[Pianoman]

Oh, is it definite that Roth and Les Siècles are going to record this? That would be very interesting. Up to now I also have the Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw version and have always been very happy with it. It was thanks to that disc that I discovered The Isle of the Dead - what a fantastic piece that is.

Yes indeed - the Ashkenazy disc is the one I've had for years and never really felt the need to replace, but the disc gets played mainly for Isle of the Dead, in which for me Ashkenazy and the RCA remain supreme. I like the weight he brings to the Dances but I did invest in the Rattle BPO a while back and did enjoy it, though I agree with others that the finale is the weakest movement.

[smittims]

Isn't it funny how the Isle of the Dead is a 'marmite' piece? I've always loved it since I heard Fritz Reiner's recording on a second-hand RCA Victrola LP. Yet I've seen, to my dismay, 'dull' and even 'boring' used!

And di you notice the difference in the presentation of the Rattle disc when it appeared after the Warner takeover of EMI? Gone were the eight (or sometimes more) photographs of the conductor that we'd become used to with his CDs; in fact he was barely mentioned at all. I've always thought there's a story behind that.

[Barbirollians]

Isn't it funny how the Isle of the Dead is a 'marmite' piece? I've always loved it since I heard Fritz Reiner's recording on a second-hand RCA Victrola LP. Yet I've seen, to my dismay, 'dull' and even 'boring' used!

And di you notice the difference in the presentation of the Rattle disc when it appeared after the Warner takeover of EMI? Gone were the eight (or sometimes more) photographs of the conductor that we'd become used to with his CDs; in fact he was barely mentioned at all. I've always thought there's a story behind that.

Ashekenazy's Isle of the Dead turned up on Eloquence coupled with Kletzki's excellent Rachmaninov Symphony No 2.

[silvestrione]

Isn't it funny how the Isle of the Dead is a 'marmite' piece? I've always loved it since I heard Fritz Reiner's recording on a second-hand RCA Victrola LP. Yet I've seen, to my dismay, 'dull' and even 'boring' used!

And di you notice the difference in the presentation of the Rattle disc when it appeared after the Warner takeover of EMI? Gone were the eight (or sometimes more) photographs of the conductor that we'd become used to with his CDs; in fact he was barely mentioned at all. I've always thought there's a story behind that.

??? A quick glance at three Rattle EMI discs, and the Messaien Eclairs...has one small photo of him at the back, The Stravinsky Ballets disc, no photo, the Ravel disc a lovely reproduction on cover, and one photo of all the cast of Les Enfants...

[Pulcinella]

The isle of the dead features on April 2023's BBC MM CD, Vol 31, No 7, a Rachmaninov 150th anniversary special (the coupling is S3): BBC Phil/Storgårds. This is actually its second outing, as it appeared on an early cover CD too (Vol 1, No 7, played by the BBCSSO under Maksymiuk).

Symphonic dances (BBCNOW/Elts) featured on Vol 20, No 10, coupled with PC2 (Douglas/Ulster O/Dworzynski); spinning right now.

[Petrushka]

And di you notice the difference in the presentation of the Rattle disc when it appeared after the Warner takeover of EMI? Gone were the eight (or sometimes more) photographs of the conductor that we'd become used to with his CDs; in fact he was barely mentioned at all. I've always thought there's a story behind that.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean or what point is being made. I've got very many Rattle CDs, both original EMI and, latterly, Warner. Rattle's photograph appears on very, very few covers. There were one or two in the early BPO days (Brahms symphonies, Heldenleben, Schubert 9) but almost nothing on CBSO releases.

The same nonsense is peddled about Karajan. The number of LP/CD covers bearing his image is actually a good deal less than one might imagine or his detractors would have us believe.

[Goon525]

Always a fascinating question.

Is La Mer a symphony?
Luckier works: Symphony No.1:Poème de la Forêt... Concerto Grosso No.4/Symphony No.5....

The Dadaist principle: whatever I call a work of art, is a work of art.
So: whatever a composer calls a symphony....

Whereas for me, Shostakovich 14 isn’t. It’s a fine orchestral song cycle, but I don’t sense much symphonic about it. But I guess if he called it a symphony…

[smittims]

I remember hearing the British premiere of Shost 14 (it's been released on a BBC Legends CD) and being disappointed with it. I think my reaction was the same as Goon's. I much preferred the 15th, and do to this day, though I've since come to enjoy the 14th in other interpretations.

[smittims]

Hi, Petrushka, I think we are at cross-purposes and I'm sorry if I didn't make my meaning clear.

I didn't intend any criticism of Simon Rattle, a conductor I admire, but I did notice a change in the presentation of his recordings which made me wonder if his relationship with Warner wasn't as pleasant as with EMI.

His Debussy (La Mer etc) disc had five photos of him, including the front and back cover, Heldenleben three, Stravinsky Symphonies three, Brahms symphonies eight, Beethoven box five, one of which was reproduced eleven times.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong in this, simply that EMI clearly wanted to market his image as well as the music. The Rachmaninov on the other hand was clearly an EMI recording 'left over' into the Warner period and the rather minimal presentation (no photos) made me wonder if Warner didn't think so highly of him . There could, of course , have been some other reason.

I may be too suspicious, but after some of the things I've seen this crazy century, nothing surprises me any more.

I agree with you about Karajan , often, I think, more sinned-against than sinning where publicity was concerned.

[Barbirollians]

Oh, is it definite that Roth and Les Siècles are going to record this? That would be very interesting. Up to now I also have the Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw version and have always been very happy with it. It was thanks to that disc that I discovered The Isle of the Dead - what a fantastic piece that is.

Is there anything Roth isn't going to record - both with les Siecles and the LSO and other orchestras his ubiquity is becoming Karajanesque.