BaL 18.03.23 - Chopin: Piano Concerto no. 2 in F minor

[Pianoman]

Me too - and for what its worth I find the orchestration in partocular the horn solo of the slow movement rather lovely.

On the other hand I do remember PG saying they are horrible concertos for the first and second violins to play.

Yes I too agree about the so-called 'amateur-ish' orchestrations of these concertos. I quite like the chamber version, particularly the Kevin Kenner one, but although I didn't expect it, I found myself missing a few little touches of orchestration that suddenly weren't there....

[LHC]

I came across a lovely rendition of the slow movement from Ingrid Fliter at the Warsaw Chopin Competition in 2000. She came second.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tk6k92H7RQ

Fliter's recording of both concertos with the SCO and Jun Markl on Linn is very good and in superb sound on the SACD.

[jayne lee wilson]

The more I hear of the Trifonov/Pletnev Chopin Evocations album, the more wonderful it seems, with gorgeously-shaped sonorities from soloist and the lushly Romantic Mahler CO, here sounding as fine as the COE itself. Trifonov still sounds hypnotically beautiful, even listening with a colder, more analytical eye.

Seems sad that both the Musicweb and Gramophone reviews took the same dismissive, narrow-minded "too slow" line. Especially that, given the wide- or wildly-ranging tempi through the first movements of both concerti, this is a misleading description; and the speeds in the finale are pretty lively, (as those reviewers noted - then saying it was too late to save the performances!). Readings which are of course, very carefully thought-through - but above all very individual: surely the essence of the Romantic Concerto - freely creative.

The Pletnev re-orchestrations are subtle and sensitive, largely a case of more prominent winds, wind solos and carefully graded dynamics. They sound very aptly idiomatic to me, but as with tempi, it probably helped that I hadn't heard these works for some years, so don't really have any internal models of expectation.

I"ll try to seek out one of the period instrument versions soon but, being so besotted, it may be hard to relate to any alternative world...

[Pulcinella]

A new release to add to the mix:

Pietro de Maria (piano), Orchestra Della Toscana, Daniele Rustioni

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9454358--chopin-piano-concertos-nos-1-2

[Nick Armstrong]

Me too - and for what it’s worth I find the orchestration in particular the horn solo of the slow movement rather lovely.

I’ve never had any problem with the orchestration either, I can’t hear that it’s inferior to other concertos of the period.

I do though have a problem with one moment in No 2 - there’s a big and sudden modulation for everyone in the last movement which I find really crass, and almost dread. Nice enough stuff in the first two movements but I’ve never found it rises above ‘pretty’.

In contrast, I’ve loved No 1 from my teenage years until now - by a huge margin my favourite of the two. That slow movement…

So I’m rather sorry BAL is considering the wrong one…

[Mal]

I would definately unwrap it and give it a spin. I bought when it was first released for the Chopin anniversary; I remember it being well received at first only to subsequentally come in for criticism for being too slow. It is quite leisurely, but I played it again quite recently and warmed to it a lot. I prefer it to the two other versions I have, Pires, who I now find a bit plain, and Rubenstein, who plays beautifully, but goes the other way and gives it the full 'Hollywood' treatment. The opening is quite stormy and Zimerman, who conducts as well, gives the music its full value here bringing Brahms to mind. Interesting to hear what others think.

I had my own mini-BAL comparison session for Chopin Piano Concerto 1 - I didn't like Zimerman/PFO in 1 - found the changes in mood & tempo baffling. But I really liked his version with LAPO/Giulini - my library choice after comparing many. It comes with a reasonable 2, but I await this BAL with interest... (Side note - it was top Penguin choice for both concertos in 1999...)

[Mal]

Hard to argue with any of those three - all excellent.

I would add the Vasary, Pires/Previn,Argerich/Rostropovich , Fliter and Grosvenor .

Struck that no recordings by Howard Shelley who has recorded so many other romantic concertos and made an excellent HIPP recording of the Second and Third Sonatas.

The 1999 Penguin guide is a bit critical of Perahia/Meta - finding the orchestra a bit offhand and matter of fact, at times, and the sound dry - although Perahia brilliant enough to launch it into second place choice after Zimerman/LAPO/Giulini.

[Sir Velo]

Rare, newly discovered colour photograph of Chopin.

[Ein Heldenleben]

So far Cortot is the absolute standout….

[smittims]

Cortot had an advantage in that when he went to Paris to begin his career it was still, despite Haussman's rebuilding, a city of cobbled streets, horse carriages, oil lamps, and it was possible to meet men who had known the composer (including one of Cortot's teachers, I think).

He remains my favourite Chopin pianist; as with Schnabel in Beethoven, no matter how many fine interpretations there have been since, there's an extra dimension to the music with these old fellows.

[Bryn]

I'd quite forgotten that I got the Ax/Mackerras a decade or so ago. I tend to agree that the approach is a bit too close to that appropriate for a modern Steinway. I prefer the playing of Dang Thai Son, his piano attributed to Erard (1849) on its front cover and in the booklet, but to Pleyel (1848) on its back cover.

[Padraig]

I have the version with Krystian Zimerman and The Polish Festival Orchestra, which I bought about 20 years ago after hearing him interviewed on the radio. The CD is still in its sellophane wrapping. Now would be a good time to listen.

I gave it a good go since then and as a newcomer to the work I listened carefully to the programme. I found it difficult to 'keep in my head' a passage just heard while the same passage was being played by another pianist - all too fast for me. However I was able to identify the points being made, mostly, and my own biased choice was largely based on the interview with K Z I heard way back; and I reckon a version played by a Polish orchestra with a Polish soloist conducting from the piano would do me rightly. I also liked the extract with the string quartet and piano.

[silvestrione]

Not much interest in this BAL? Surprising, as I thought it particularly good, being almost entirely made up of extracts with hints of what to look for and brief but perceptive characterisations. Clearly Kenneth Hamilton has no inclination to choose just one, apart from the constraints of the programme. Though, after he talked so interestingly about the differences between the Pleyel/Erard of Chopin's time and today's Steinway, it was a little disappointing that nearly all the examples were played on a modern piano. This is the second time that Argerich has been chosen, I think, and not surprising. I know and love it, and the Grosvenor, and found the Zimerman intriguing.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ben Grosvenor to win.

You weren't far out.

[Alison]

You weren't far out.

Thanks, each way bet landed anyway!

Amazon have this disc at £5.99 new, a great bargain I’d say.