BaL 18.02.23 - Mozart: String Quartet no. 19 in C major, K. 465 ’Dissonance’

**jayne lee wilson** · 28-01-23, 01:30

Well, a fascinating choice of subject.....

First off, it would be the Kuijkens or the Mosaïques for me.... but it's a wonderful piece from those Haydn Quartets - "the fruits of laborious toil" - and we can't hear it too often...

Daunted, I kept avoiding this set of six. Finally (with Hans Keller's comments in mind), it took a Japanese transfer of the Kuijkens on Denon Mastersonics, played daily on my bedside Tivoli, to bring it all home...
Yes, they can seem a little elusive. Give them time and space....you may learn to love them.

**smittims** · 28-01-23, 08:25

I know it's commonplace to love the first recording one heard of a work, but for me the 'Haydn' quartets will always be associated for me with the Budapest Quartet's recordings made at the Library of Congress using the Whittall Strads.

**MickyD** · 28-01-23, 14:55

I have the 'Haydn' quartets with the Salomons, but haven't heard the discs for years, I wonder how they sound now? I see they are now only available for download.

**CallMePaul** · 28-01-23, 18:57

Pity that all the period performances appear to be download only, which makes them as good as NLA for me. Maybe the London Haydn Quartet will turn its attention to Mozart now that it has completed its complete survey of Haydn (last discs due imminently - see Hyperion advert in the February Gramophone.

**richardfinegold** · 28-01-23, 19:09

It’s been the Quarteto Italian for me forever, but lately acquired a few others as a result of Big Box purchases, namely Guarneri and Alban Berg. Guarneri has awful sound-RCA orchestral recordings of the era were frequently excellent but the Guarneri sounds like they were exiled to the same studio occupied by Toscanini and the NBC Symphony a generation previously. Speaking of awful sound, I notice the Hungarian Quartet, who were recorded by Vox and the distributed on vinyl more appropriately used for asphalting a road

**Mandryka** · 28-01-23, 19:27

Unfortunately Hagen won’t be doing it in their Mozart concerts at the Wigmore next week. They have the DG recording of course, but also a DVD with a rather different understanding of the music.

Interesting the blurb at the top of the page - I didn’t know that these quartets dedicated to Haydn were known to be specificly a response to op 33. And interestingly as far as I know, Haydn never felt the need to respond to anything Mozart did!

Also in the blurb, the idea that it «caps» the set of six, as if the order matters. The order could matter of course, but it’s not something that’s obvious to me.

For me the big problem with the Mozart is to somehow make sense of the first movement -- you either have to lighten up the dissonant prelude or darken down the material which follows. Otherwise it just sounds incongruent IMO. It may not be possible. The trope is presumably derived from French overtures.

The last time I thought about performance I thought that Ysaye was pretty good, and the old Capet Quartet Cd is fun because it’s so old fashioned. The Tanayev Quartet well worth hearing because the approach is very serious.

**jayne lee wilson** · 28-01-23, 20:28

Originally posted by CallMePaul View Post

Pity that all the period performances appear to be download only, which makes them as good as NLA for me. Maybe the London Haydn Quartet will turn its attention to Mozart now that it has completed its complete survey of Haydn (last discs due imminently - see Hyperion advert in the February Gramophone.

Complete set....(Mosaïques)...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-String-Quartets-Quatuor-Mosaïques/dp/B0000CNTK4/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3S5DCNBSHUNPU&keywords=mosaiques+mozart&qid=1674937468&sprefix=mosaiques+mozart%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-2

....or with k464....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Quartets-dedicated-Quatuor-Mosaïques/dp/B000026E80/ref=d_pd_sbs_sccl_1_2/257-5586350-1011850?pd_rd_w=ti5Wp&content-id=amzn1.sym.e915a13f-380a-44c0-b87a-2bc42d7457b9&pf_rd_p=e915a13f-380a-44c0-b87a-2bc42d7457b9&pf_rd_r=CNMV7VS10MTJWRATFRA7&pd_rd_wg=2eF61&pd_rd_r=258ac2da-a571-4d93-ba30-31149403dbc3&pd_rd_i=B000026E80&psc=1

You'll find Kuijken there too if you look a little further...

**smittims** · 29-01-23, 08:07

Hi Mandryka, re Haydn and Mozart, I cannot quote a source, but I've always believed it was accepted that Haydn was indeed influenced by Mozart's later music. He told Mozart Senior that his son was the greatest composer known to him, and he is known to have been moved by Mozart's death. And of course he was still composing many years after that.

**RichardB** · 29-01-23, 10:14

Originally posted by smittims View Post

I've always believed it was accepted that Haydn was indeed influenced by Mozart's later music

Of course. This can be heard very clearly in several examples like the slow movement of his D minor trio (no. 37 I think). Haydn't music in general undergoes a stylistic change in the 1790s which brings various aspects of it (harmony, orchestration, expression) audibly closer to Mozart's work than it had been before, while always remaining Haydn of course.

I got to know the "Haydn" quartets through the Mosaïques recordings and I think that group is close to untouchable in Mozart, although the Kuijkens come close (and they've also recorded the quintets which these days I listen to more often). I'm a great admirer of the Hagens but not really in 18th century music.

**Mandryka** · 29-01-23, 10:31

Originally posted by RichardB View Post

Of course. This can be heard very clearly in several examples like the slow movement of his D minor trio (no. 37 I think). Haydn't music in general undergoes a stylistic change in the 1790s which brings various aspects of it (harmony, orchestration, expression) audibly closer to Mozart's work than it had been before, while always remaining Haydn of course.

Thanks smttims and Richard, I will investigate, I’ve been interested in the question for a while but have been unable to make any headway with it.

**MickyD** · 29-01-23, 10:49

Originally posted by CallMePaul View Post

Pity that all the period performances appear to be download only, which makes them as good as NLA for me. Maybe the London Haydn Quartet will turn its attention to Mozart now that it has completed its complete survey of Haydn (last discs due imminently - see Hyperion advert in the February Gramophone.

There is a box set of the Salomons here, some sellers are offering it for under 30 pounds.

Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Six-HAYDN-String-Quartets/dp/B000002ZFR/ref=sr_1_11?crid=SW0CU8HB9XFD&keywords=Salomon+Quartet&qid=1674989287&s=music&sprefix=salomon+quartet%2Cclassical%2C96&sr=1-11

The Mosaiques set highlighted by Jayne is going for a staggering £145!

**Mandryka** · 29-01-23, 11:02

Originally posted by MickyD View Post

There is a box set of the Salomons here, some sellers are offering it for under 30 pounds.

Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Six-HAYDN-String-Quartets/dp/B000002ZFR/ref=sr_1_11?crid=SW0CU8HB9XFD&keywords=Salomon+Quartet&qid=1674989287&s=music&sprefix=salomon+quartet%2Cclassical%2C96&sr=1-11

The Mosaiques set highlighted by Jayne is going for a staggering £145!

I’m keen on the Salomon - but somehow more so in the Prussian quartet series than in the quartets for Haydn. It may be just me of course, and I may feel differently if I got it out today - the approach is distinctive and divisive enough to make it well worth a shot.

(And indeed, true to form, I am enjoying the Salomon 465 now as I type! Typical.)

**Mandryka** · 29-01-23, 11:06

Here’s a cd of Cambini Paris, I have enjoyed a lot in the past, not sure how I’d feel now. I think they use period instruments. Really you need to hear everything.

Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-String-Quartets-dedicated-Haydn/dp/B00QN9TIJ6/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1674990279&refinements=p_32%3AQuatuor+Cambini-Paris&s=music&sr=1-1

**Bryn** · 29-01-23, 11:50

Among others, I am rather fond of the Chiaroscuro Quartet's recording:

BaL 18.02.23 - Mozart: String Quartet no. 19 in C major, K. 465 ’Dissonance’

BaL 18.02.23 - Mozart: String Quartet no. 19 in C major, K. 465 ’Dissonance’

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